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Celebration Mile 2009

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  • #12480
    thehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5552

    This promises to be an exciting contest, with the Guineas and St James Palace runner-up Delegator taking on the up-and-coming Zacinto.

    Personally I think it’s between these two, because even a return to form for Evasive leaves him with something to find with Delegator. At the prices (Delegator Evens, Zacinto 11/4) I think Zacinto is the value. I always got the feeling that Sir Michael Stoute held Zacinto in higher regard then Evasive, so that wouldn’t leave Zacinto too far away from Delegator on form. Also, Delegator has had 3 hard races this year and they could take there toll.

    #245682
    Zarkava
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    • Total Posts 4691

    Yup, definitely Zacinto for me. Has course form, goes on all ground and IMO Delegator’s just waiting for something to overtake him. Stoute’s unexposed horse could easily be the 3yo we’re all waiting for this year (for those of us who remain unconvinced by STS ;) ) and the QE2 the obvious target if victorious.

    #245685
    thehorsesmouth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5552

    If you’re still waiting for a 3yo this season I don’t know what racing you’ve been looking at! :shock: :lol: I guess it is all about opinions

    IMO we’ve seen some top class horses, but there is always room at the table for another. Delegator is one of those nearly horses, and his style of running does make him vulnerable. Zacinto could be anything, and that’s why I won’t be backing against him on Saturday.

    #245694
    Zarkava
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    • Total Posts 4691

    The way I look at it is that Delegator had MCM beat for all but stamina and IMO STS was pretty much all out to beat MCM at York. On every single formline going Delegator is no worse than STS by 1 1/2 lengths.

    And IMO that doesn’t make for a top class group of 3yos.

    #245699
    wallace-no7
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    I defo not going to argue again about the Merits of these 3yr old colts :lol:

    But for me Zacinto is the one to beat…and 11/4 is a huge price. Delegator is a very good horse but hasnt won a race since his egg and spoon trial for the Guineas.

    Think the animal is a bit of a professional loser IMO….happly take it on with Godolphin. Evasive was poor i believe when he ran for them so Zacinto looks good value from the boys and Blue Square

    #245702
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    This is a step up for Zacinto but he is going the right way and should definitely give Delegator and co. something to think about. Can’t see him being 11/4 on the day.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #245706
    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4012

    Dear Zarkava,exactly how far was the race when Delegator had a stamina deficit that you refer to against MCM? Did MCM have a stamina deficit when beaten by STS? Are we talking about the St.Leger or what? Seems that stamina is the excuse every time a horse gets beaten beyond six furlongs nowadays.Also seems to me that the farther they go the farther behind Delegator gets using your explanation

    #245714
    Zarkava
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    • Total Posts 4691

    Is there a single person who didn’t agree that stamina was what got Delegator beaten in the St. James’? And has a single person argued that a lack of stamina was the reason for MCM getting beaten?

    #245715
    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4012

    If a horse does not have the "stamina " to see out a mile race then that horse is not a miler.It was a lack of speed that cost Delegator both the Two thousand Guineasd and the St. James Palace stakes not stamina. Most horses who have "stamina" do not run in mile races. Check those races and those won by STS and the times will prove that speed not stamina won those races.

    #245716
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    Andy, honestly I don’t know what you mean by that last post. Clearly Delegator didn’t lack speed in either the Guineas or the St. James’ because he took the lead in both races only to falter in the final 100 yards. It wasn’t obvious in the Guineas but it was extremely obvious in the St. James’.

    #245721
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    I doubt if anyone is bigger fan of SMS’s training aility that I am but if Zacinto beats Delegator it puts a huge question mark over the entire 3yo scene.

    2nd in the Guineas just beaten by Sea the Stars..runs Mastercraftsman to a head………Mastercraftsman runs Sea the Stars to a length oer whatever.

    The point is if Zacinto were to beat Delegator easily or at all we would all have to have a rethink about the 3yo.

    Personally I think Xacinto lacks the class and if I was having a bet I would back Delegator……I’ve been following the great man for many years and I would like to think I know a little bit about how he thinks and in this case it is very muh a case of……"Why not? nothing to lose"

    Delegator for me!

    #245737
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Second-guessing Stoute? Are you serious?

    #245741
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    Zacinto is owned by a man who doesn’t enter any of his juveniles for the Derby at the initial stage. If he makes a supplementary entry, you have to sit up and take notice.

    #245747
    andyod
    Member
    • Total Posts 4012

    Zarkava
    A 5 furlong horse can carry his speed over 5 furlongs. A six furlong can do it over 6 A miler must be able to carry his speed over a mile. Otherwise he is not a miler but a sprinter.After a mile a horse becomes a distance horse. Delegator is not a distance horse .Is he miler? So far he has failed to carry his speed over a mile.Perhaps he is a seven furlong horse or a group three horse.over a mile

    #245766
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    I get what you’re getting at. He’s a miler who doesn’t get a mile.

    #245811
    Rob V
    Member
    • Total Posts 173

    At the start of the 2009 flat season, Zacinto (along with Crowded House) were my fancies for the 2000 Guineas. Unfortunately, they didn’t run but I do feel that both could’ve made a huge impact on the race.

    Now that Zacinto is back and has had a recent run, I feel fairly confident that he can beat Delegator. I think it will be a tough match for both of them but Zacinto looks a better fighter whereas Delegator comes across as one that gets ‘worried’ out of a finish.

    #245832
    Stacelita
    Member
    • Total Posts 202

    Maybe Delegator got beat because he came up against 2 excellent horses who outbattled him?

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