- This topic has 61 replies, 17 voices, and was last updated 16 years, 8 months ago by
.
- Posts
- Total Posts 17716
Second-guessing Stoute? Are you serious?
Oh Hi Mr.Sarcarsm……another in depth analysis from our resident genius
Of course the man is running the horse and thinking why not….he’s a well bred animal who up to now has beaten a handicapper running in listed company by a head. He was beaten by one of AOB’s lesser lights Westphalia in a Group 2 last season.
On paper he must be 7lbs behind Delegator and I would imagine SMS is taking on Delegator in the hope the horse has improved enough to beat him and take a step up in class.
On his last run he has absolutely no chance of doing so but if you don’t take a leap into the unknown how would you know for sure? SMS may fancy his chances but confident of success? I very much doubt it as this is Zacinto’s biggest test to date
I got the impression Delegator never got the mile at Newmarket or quit but he put those theories to bed when he ran on really well against MCM.
Zacinto would have to be as good as Mastercraftsman or maybe even Sea the Stars if Delegator has improved, to win this and that’s why he’s 11/4 to do so.
Delegator should be 1/3 and Zacinto 13/2 so depending on how godolphin have handled him, we shouldn’t really be worried they seem to be in decent form he is value and i will be having a bet.
Delegator should be 1/3 and Zacinto 13/2 so depending on how godolphin have handled him, we shouldn’t really be worried they seem to be in decent form he is value and i will be having a bet.
Not even Raven’s Pass was that price and his toughest opponent was Bankable.
- Total Posts 17716
If a horse does not have the "stamina " to see out a mile race then that horse is not a miler.It was a lack of speed that cost Delegator both the Two thousand Guineasd and the St. James Palace stakes not stamina. Most horses who have "stamina" do not run in mile races. Check those races and those won by STS and the times will prove that speed not stamina won those races.
Don’t know that I’d agree with that; Paco Boy ‘stays’ a mile, has won a gp1 at that distance, but simply isn’t as good as he is over shorter.
Generalisations that apply in the States don’t necessarily carry over to British racing either. We have different terrains, longer courses, mainly more varied ground conditions, and often different pace shapes, which all make predicting optimum distances much less cut and dried than they would be in many other countries.
Fwiw, Delegator has 3 times failed to totally see out a mile, winning just 1 steadily run gp3 at the distance and, for all his trainer’s bluster, has no further gp1 10f entries as he had earlier in the season, (Though he still has one in the 7f Park Stakes at Doncaster
). That still shouldn’t stop him ‘staying’ the sharp 1m at Goodwood, though if the ground became at all testing, not something I would bet on.Ravens was clearly in a different league last year in this race even with some cut in the ground and even his trainer doubted whether he got a mile and then went on to win the breeders classic over 1 mile 2 furlongs!
I loved Raven’s Pass. Just when he peaked, he was gone
He’d have been a fabulous 4 Y Omy points system
143 mac love
142 delegator
138 cesare
128 ordenance row
128 zacinto
127 beacon lodge
121 smokey oakeywill back mac love ew
My feeling is that Delegator could be class above these. I’d be worried by rain though.
Anyone who thinks Delegator or Mastercraftsman "nearly" beat Sea The Stars are very, very wrong in my opinion.
Regardless, Delegator for me on Good or bettter.
Akin to Michael Johnson jogging after me for 390m then beating me easily but narrowly over 400m.
Saying a Delegator loss would put a cloud over this years clearly exceptional 3yo colts is ridiculous – has Youmzains subsequent failures put Zarkavas Arc win under a cloud? Nope.
Well Youmzain wasn’t even winning before the Arc
I just think that if you compare the way he was travelling 2f out in the Juddmonte to the way he was travelling in the Eclipse then you could easily be tricked into thinking you’re looking at a different horse.
- Total Posts 17716
Then don’t be tricked – winners keep winning.
Peruvian Chief
Regardless, Delegator for me on Good or better.
Hmmm!
- Total Posts 17716
At the start of the 2009 flat season, Zacinto (along with Crowded House) were my fancies for the 2000 Guineas. Unfortunately, they didn’t run but I do feel that both could’ve made a huge impact on the race.
Now that Zacinto is back and has had a recent run, I feel fairly confident that he can beat Delegator. I think it will be a tough match for both of them but Zacinto looks a better fighter whereas Delegator comes across as one that gets ‘worried’ out of a finish.
I have to give you a Hmm! too Rob
While you could prove to be right about Zacinto how on earth do you work out that Crowded House would have had any sort of impact on the result in the 2000 guineas?. His win over Jukebox Jury is about 2 stone below what Sea the Stars has achieved and he’s obviously not trained on. They might get a win out of him but not while horses like StS and the OAB trio are around.
At the start of the 2009 flat season, Zacinto (along with Crowded House) were my fancies for the 2000 Guineas. Unfortunately, they didn’t run but I do feel that both could’ve made a huge impact on the race.
Now that Zacinto is back and has had a recent run, I feel fairly confident that he can beat Delegator. I think it will be a tough match for both of them but Zacinto looks a better fighter whereas Delegator comes across as one that gets ‘worried’ out of a finish.
I have to give you a Hmm! too Rob
While you could prove to be right about Zacinto how on earth do you work out that Crowded House would have had any sort of impact on the result in the 2000 guineas?. His win over Jukebox Jury is about 2 stone below what Sea the Stars has achieved and he’s obviously not trained on. They might get a win out of him but not while horses like StS and the OAB trio are around.
Whether Crowded House has trained on or not, I suppose the jury is still out on that one. He ran disappointingly in the Dante and, to me, appeared not to stay in the Derby.
I felt that Crowded House would’ve made an impact in the 2000 Guineas because he was proven at a mile and the way he left Jukebox Jury for dead in the RPT, he looked in a different class altogether. I’m at a complete loss as to why the trainer didn’t run him in the 2000 Guineas … when he certainly had the chance to! Let’s face it, if AOB would’ve trained Delegator and CH, he’d have ran the two of them in the Guineas.CH will never beat STS and the AOB trio now since they’ve all progressed nicely with their racing whilst CH has gathered rust
). That still shouldn’t stop him ‘staying’ the sharp 1m at Goodwood, though if the ground became at all testing, not something I would bet on.
He’d have been a fabulous 4 Y O
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.