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"Kris Diesis wrote: The others that won one and was second in the other namely Mill Reef, Roberto, Grundy, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave and Sir Percy all except EGS ran in 10F G1 at 3.
What horses who won one Classic and were second in the other did has absolutely no bearing on what Camelot should do. If Camelot had been second in the Guineas I doubt they’d be thinking of the Leger at all. The fact that he has won the first two legs mean they are targetting the Leger to try make history. Do you honestly think revving the horse up for a potentially punishing duel with Frankel over 10f would be the ideal prep for the 14f St Leger? I think not.
let me take you back to 1990 when sheikh mohammed ran his best 3 year old BELMEZ and best older horse OLD VIC in the king george.
imagine coolmore doing that? no exactly.
thats why people are losing intrest in the flat compared to the 80sNijinsky did not run in a 10f race until after he had won the triple crown. Royal Palace did not run in a 10f event or against older horses until after the St Leger had been run. Sir Ivor, Nashwan and Sea the Stars were never aimed at the Triple Crown so running over 10f before the St Leger is completely foreign to a horse attempting to win the triple crown.
Nijinsky did not run in a 10f race until after he had won the triple crown. Royal Palace did not run in a 10f event or against older horses until after the St Leger had been run. Sir Ivor, Nashwan and Sea the Stars were never aimed at the Triple Crown so running over 10f before the St Leger is completely foreign to a horse attempting to win the triple crown.
Common, Isinglass, Flying Fox, Diamond Jubilee, and Rock Sand all won or placed in the Eclipse in between the Derby and St. Leger.
Indeed but the WFA scale was different, the Eclipse was confined to 3 & 4 year olds and the Gold Cup was the primary target for older horses.
They are saying now that they may consider the Irish Derby
http://www.attheraces.com/article.aspx? … um=twitterSo Clare Balding tells us that Frankel is retired due to injury. Cornelius Lysamijiggy tells us that Camelot won’t run again til the Leger.
What do these two people have in common? THE BBC.
Sore at losing the racing contract they are clearly trying to sabotage the season by putting out false stories. I’m on to em!!!!
Watch out next for Aussie Jim telling us that Black Caviar suffers from travel sickness and won’t make the plane. Then see as John Parrot tells us that Hayley is preggers by Silvestre and won’t be riding again this season. Poor show BBC!!!!
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I’m not saying that they shouldn’t still aim at the St.Leger, but if Camelot doesn’t run in any Championship race, be it the Eclipse, KG or Juddmonte, then wouldn’t you be a little bit surprised and very disappointed that the best 3 year-old middle distance colt in Europe was not asked to compete at least once against the older horses.
Say what you want about Henry Cecil’s campaigning of Frankel over a mile, but the fact is, the colt has run in every G1 mile race in the UK he was eligible to run in. If Ballydoyle do not run him outside of his own age group when he is almost certain to have optimum conditions at some stage, well that can be seen as protecting the value of their most prized asset.
I’m also excited by the prospect of seeing a Triple Crown winner, but attempting this doesn’t mean he has to miss all the other G1’s he could contest. Lets face it, it’s going to be a hell of a lot tougher to win the KG, Juddmonte or Eclipse than the St.Leger unless it turns up heavy at Donny, then they probably wouldn’t risk running him.
It makes perfect sense to run Camelot in the Juddmonte. The Juddmonte is nicely spaced between say the Irish Derby and the St.Leger on a flat level track, long run in, generally run on Good/Good to Firm, likely to be a smallish field. I would assume that he is capable of reproducing his best over 10+ furlongs.
Lets hope if Frankel turns up so does Camelot. I’d much rather see that than Camelot beating Thought Worthy by 2L with his head in his chest.
Agree with the first part KD, Camelot should run somewhere before the St Leger. Don’t see why he has to go for the International though. Coming back in trip before going up even furher (12, 10, 14) isn’t always the best thing.
I don’t mind where Camelot goes as long as we see him before the Leger. Plenty of races to choose from, be it in Ireland, Britain, France or Germany.
Value Is EverythingWhat a complete load of dross!!!
The horse is out to achieve something no horse has done since Nijinsky and you lot would have them risk taking the edge of him beforehand.
Any sensible trainer would do exactly the same and then go either for the Arc or go to the Breeders.
Don’t forget what happened to Nijinsky who went Derby King George St Leger and then lost in the Arc because Dr Vincent said it all came too soon.
Aiden will be very aware of that and like all trainers he’d rather win the Arc than the King George any day of the week
If his next race is to be the St Leger I applaud Aiden O’Brien for a very wise business decision.
Scared doesn’t come into it, he has a target and everything else gets put on the back burner because nothing is more important now than the St Leger/The Triple Crown.
Nijinsky had ringworm in August which interupteted his preparation for the final Classic. A fact that probably had a lot more to do with his below par performances afterwards than running in the King George. Ringworm could strike at any moment, keeping Camelot at home is no remedy.
Value Is EverythingInteresting point made in a conversation on twitter ( i think included David Johnson from this forum) which I, and I think most people, hadn’t considered when talking about possible targets for Camelot is Joseph O’Briens weight. For instance the weight a 3yo carries in the Eclipse is 8st 11lb but having checked on the RP site O’Brien’s lowest riding weight in the last twelve months is 8st 12lb. It would also rule out O’Brien from the King George as a 3yo carries only 8st 9lb. Not quite sure if Coolemore would want to put someone else up.
Interesting point made in a conversation on twitter ( i think included David Johnson from this forum) which I, and I think most people, hadn’t considered when talking about possible targets for Camelot is Joseph O’Briens weight. For instance the weight a 3yo carries in the Eclipse is 8st 11lb but having checked on the RP site O’Brien’s lowest riding weight in the last twelve months is 8st 12lb. It would also rule out O’Brien from the King George as a 3yo carries only 8st 9lb. Not quite sure if Coolemore would want to put someone else up.
Well why not? There has got to be plenty of jockeys around who would jump at the chance to ride into the history books on a potential Triple Crown winner.
Nijinsky also had colic on the eve of The Derby. Vincet O’Brien was very close to pulling the horse out of the race.
As for Joseph O’Brien.
Given his height, I will be very surprised if he is still a jockey in five years time, let alone riding for his father. He is bound to pile on the pounds.
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What a complete load of dross!!!
The horse is out to achieve something no horse has done since Nijinsky and you lot would have them risk taking the edge of him beforehand.
Any sensible trainer would do exactly the same and then go either for the Arc or go to the Breeders.
Don’t forget what happened to Nijinsky who went Derby King George St Leger and then lost in the Arc because Dr Vincent said it all came too soon.
Aiden will be very aware of that and like all trainers he’d rather win the Arc than the King George any day of the week
If his next race is to be the St Leger I applaud Aiden O’Brien for a very wise business decision.
Scared doesn’t come into it, he has a target and everything else gets put on the back burner because nothing is more important now than the St Leger/The Triple Crown.
Nijinsky had ringworm in August which interupteted his preparation for the final Classic. A fact that probably had a lot more to do with his below par performances afterwards than running in the King George. Ringworm could strike at any moment, keeping Camelot at home is no remedy.
I’m not a vet but I did have a horse we fancied to win who ran only to get beat into second. After the race we found out he had ringworm, we treated him but he was not restricted to his box and 4 weeks later he ran and won so I doubt if it had very much to do with it at all
Dr Vincent said it came too soon after the Leger a race he lost loads of weight in, you say it was Ringworm he had beforehand I say it was because he got really upset by the clambering public before the race at Longchamp and Lester gave him a self confessed pig of a ride. To each his own
.The ringworm undoubtedly had an effect. Here are some extracts from ‘Vincent O’Brien – The Official Biography’:
‘Within a week of his return to Ballydoyle, Nijinsky was struck down by a particularly virulent form of ringworm. "So much of his hair fell out that he was bald over most of his body," Vincent reports. "Of course, there was no way we could put a saddle on him."’
‘The horses work had been severely held up by the ringworm. "Even in late August," the lads report, "you could not ride him for ten minutes or he’d bleed."’
Vencent also said "…he lost 29lbs in weight coming back from the St. Leger."
This is a horse who’d never lost condition after a race. It’s obvious that it was a very agressive bout of ringworm, more so than what your horse had HGM.
Page 196-7 of the book if anyone is interested.
If he goes through the season unbeaten by his peers he can take on older horses in the Arc.The question is not how good is he but can he do the Triple Crown? Ballydoyle have plenty of older horses to sweep up the other races.I believe they would like to win another group one with SYT before he returns to Australia.The second half of the season is for SNA.Perhaps Camelot will wait until next year to take on the older horses.Good thing Aidan does not insist on staying at home. Although I believe that Big John loves to win the Irish Derby so he may head Camelot to that.
If he’s going to take on the Triple Crown the Arc is a non-starter. There is easily scope for him to take on Freakel in the Juddmonte but I have a terrible feeling it won’t happen- I can’t see them wanting to get him geed up for 10f again if he’s going for the Leger.
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