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There is a huge difference between a potential stallion getting beaten and a top class filly, especially a 3yo filly against older colts. Now a 3yo filly would be far more likely to run in the Nassau/Yorkshire Oaks. As I have stated before, Milligram was the last 3yo filly to run in the Eclipse in 1987, while only Silver Lane(1989) and Eswarah(2005 at Newbury)have run in the King George. Given the record of fillies in the former it is understandable, in the latter is rather surprising.
I would very much doubt that Mssrs Smith et al will be reading this thread let alone caring about its contents. After all, it’s their horse and they can bloody well do as they please with him.
As mentioned, Coolmore have several other horses for the other championship races between here and the St Leger so I take no issue with the proposed route (if true). Perhaps other operations could be lamented for not producing championship horses for these championship races?
A St Leger followed by a four year old career brimming with championship races would be a delight although given the nature of flat racing, I wouldn’t be holding my breath.
Camelot – Possibly Voltigeur – Ledger – Arc
Eclipse – So You Think
King George – St Nick
Irish Derby – Probably, Astrology (or some other lesser light)
All these horses will be kept apart from each other, Camelot wont go near Frankel, business is business.
IMO of course.
What a complete load of dross!!!
The horse is out to achieve something no horse has done since Nijinsky and you lot would have them risk taking the edge of him beforehand.
Any sensible trainer would do exactly the same and then go either for the Arc or go to the Breeders. Don’t forget what happened to Nijinsky who went Derby King George St Leger and then lost in the Arc because Dr Vincent said it all came too soon. Aiden will be very aware of that and like all trainers he’d rather win the Arc than the King George any day of the week
With the Triple Crown under his best the world is his oyster and he could take in the likes of the King George next season. They do still run flat horses at 4 years old you know.
If his next race is to be the St Leger I applaud Aiden O’Brien for a very wise business decision.
Scared doesn’t come into it, he has a target and everything else gets put on the back burner because nothing is more important now than the St Leger/The Triple Crown.
If this is true it stinks of protectionism.
You might argue it makes business sense, SYT for the Eclipse, Astrology/Imperial Monarch for Irish Derby, St Nic for the King George, they are all more than capable of winning those races.
At the moment we are in the midst of having perhaps the greatest thoroughbred any of us have ever seen. If, as seems likely HRC campaigns Frankel over 10F this season then it would be reasonable to assume that the Juddmonte will be on his agenda. As SYT’s European campaign would have ended by then, Ballydoyle would have nothing (that I can think of) other than Camelot who you would give any conceivable chance to of beating Frankel.
The Juddmonte even fits snugly in the pattern to give a nice break before the St.Leger, if the Triple Crown is their goal. If Frankel turns up and Camelot stays away, barring injury/virus excuses, then I, and the vast majority of the racing public I suspect would see this as running scared.
If this is true it stinks of protectionism.
You might argue it makes business sense, SYT for the Eclipse, Astrology/Imperial Monarch for Irish Derby, St Nic for the King George, they are all more than capable of winning those races.
At the moment we are in the midst of having perhaps the greatest thoroughbred any of us have ever seen. If, as seems likely HRC campaigns Frankel over 10F this season then it would be reasonable to assume that the Juddmonte will be on his agenda. As SYT’s European campaign would have ended by then, Ballydoyle would have nothing (that I can think of) other than Camelot who you would give any conceivable chance to of beating Frankel.
The Juddmonte even fits snugly in the pattern to give a nice break before the St.Leger, if the Triple Crown is their goal. If Frankel turns up and Camelot stays away, barring injury/virus excuses, then I, and the vast majority of the racing public I suspect would see this as running scared.
However, you defended the decision not to try Frankel over further than a mile in his classic year. You cannot have it both ways.
Owners and trainers have the right to campaign their horses as they see fit. Idle gossip wins nothing on the racecourse.
If this is true it stinks of protectionism.
You might argue it makes business sense, SYT for the Eclipse, Astrology/Imperial Monarch for Irish Derby, St Nic for the King George, they are all more than capable of winning those races.
At the moment we are in the midst of having perhaps the greatest thoroughbred any of us have ever seen. If, as seems likely HRC campaigns Frankel over 10F this season then it would be reasonable to assume that the Juddmonte will be on his agenda. As SYT’s European campaign would have ended by then, Ballydoyle would have nothing (that I can think of) other than Camelot who you would give any conceivable chance to of beating Frankel.
The Juddmonte even fits snugly in the pattern to give a nice break before the St.Leger, if the Triple Crown is their goal. If Frankel turns up and Camelot stays away, barring injury/virus excuses, then I, and the vast majority of the racing public I suspect would see this as running scared.
However, you defended the decision not to try Frankel over further than a mile in his classic year. You cannot have it both ways.
Owners and trainers have the right to campaign their horses as they see fit. Idle gossip wins nothing on the racecourse.
But Cecil clearly didn’t believe that Frankel would get the trips over greater distances whereas Camelot clearly does get a mile and a quarter. There’s no comparison.
Perhaps what we should be asking is whether Sir Henry would fear any other animal in training at a mile ( What appears to be the trainer’s idea of Frankel’s optimum trip.) The answer is obviously no. Nothing currently drawing breath is going to trouble Frankel over 8 furlongs.
If Camelot’s best distance is 12 furlongs. (He doesn’t travel quickly enough for anything shorter IMO.) Then it is a moot point. If however Camelot’s connections believe him to be a genuinely brilliant horse with that all important ‘versatility’, then surely he’d be capable of meeting Frankel over 10 furlongs?
Of course there is a comparison. It is called running a horse out of its comfort zone. It seems that it is acceptable for one trainer not to do it but not another. What is even more incredulous is that there is no proof that Camelot will not run until the St Leger, only a random message on a social networking site, yet people are taking this and making unqualified accusations.
While Henry has said that he would like to run Frankel over further than a mile, he has also stated that he will not do this if he does not think it is right for the horse. Frankel did not attempt the Derby because it was deemed unsuitable for his development as a racehorse.
Why is the notion of not subjecting a developing horse to a test for which he is not suited regarded as sensible in one case yet cowardice in another unless the person reaching that conclusion is employing double standards.Protecionism????St Nicholas Abbey is perfectly capable of winning the King George? but they should send Camelot there to beat him and the chance of increasing his stud value goes out the window.
You are not making any sense Kris D. Surely better if they win the KG with SNA and stick to the St Leger plan.
Let’s not forget the American Triple Crown could be won this year too.
If both are won how about Camelot V I’ll Have Another at the Breeders and throw Frankel into the mix and you could have the race of a lifetime.
I can see no reason why all 3 woudn’t run but I suppose it’s more than anyone can hope for.
From a personal pint of view as a racing fan I am much more excited about the proepect of Camelot winning the St leger than I would be him running in the KG as it could be a pretty ordinary G1 race this year unless something like Danedream turns up.If this is true it stinks of protectionism.
You might argue it makes business sense, SYT for the Eclipse, Astrology/Imperial Monarch for Irish Derby, St Nic for the King George, they are all more than capable of winning those races.
At the moment we are in the midst of having perhaps the greatest thoroughbred any of us have ever seen. If, as seems likely HRC campaigns Frankel over 10F this season then it would be reasonable to assume that the Juddmonte will be on his agenda. As SYT’s European campaign would have ended by then, Ballydoyle would have nothing (that I can think of) other than Camelot who you would give any conceivable chance to of beating Frankel.
The Juddmonte even fits snugly in the pattern to give a nice break before the St.Leger, if the Triple Crown is their goal. If Frankel turns up and Camelot stays away, barring injury/virus excuses, then I, and the vast majority of the racing public I suspect would see this as running scared.
However, you defended the decision not to try Frankel over further than a mile in his classic year. You cannot have it both ways.
Owners and trainers have the right to campaign their horses as they see fit. Idle gossip wins nothing on the racecourse.
But Cecil clearly didn’t believe that Frankel would get the trips over greater distances whereas Camelot clearly does get a mile and a quarter. There’s no comparison.
I don’t think Sir Henry has ever said Frankel wouldn’t get 10 furlongs…the original plan was to go for the Eclipse but after his set back that may not happen now.
What he has said is they will run him over 10 furlongs if and when he is ready. The hope must be that he settles really well at Ascot now he’s had his initial outing then they will decide.
If Tom Queally came back in after Ascot and said he hadn’t change he just wont settle in his races then I doubt if Sir Henry will step him up.
No one on the planet with a top class horse, unless they have laid the thing
want’s to see theirs get beat. If I owned him and my jockey reported back 10 furlongs won’t suit him he pulls too hard then I wouldn’t run him…….would anyone?How many times do you hear a trainer say we will do what’s best for the horse? No doubt in my mind that will be very much the case for Frankel.
"I don’t think Sir Henry has ever said Frankel wouldn’t get 10 furlongs…the original plan was to go for the Eclipse but after his set back that may not happen now."
I think the fact that a four year old horse as clearly gifted as Frankel hasn’t already raced over 10 furlongs tells us that Sir Henry at least has doubts.
Personally I’m expecting him to sweep away the opposition if and when he runs over further. It will be unthinkable not to ever know how good he is. Nobody in any of the various related threads seems to attribute the horse’s agenda in any way to his owner. How much influence does the Prince have over the horse’s direction?
Protecionism????St Nicholas Abbey is perfectly capable of winning the King George? but they should send Camelot there to beat him and the chance of increasing his stud value goes out the window.
You are not making any sense Kris D. Surely better if they win the KG with SNA and stick to the St Leger plan.
Let’s not forget the American Triple Crown could be won this year too.
If both are won how about Camelot V I’ll Have Another at the Breeders and throw Frankel into the mix and you could have the race of a lifetime.
I can see no reason why all 3 woudn’t run but I suppose it’s more than anyone can hope for.
From a personal pint of view as a racing fan I am much more excited about the proepect of Camelot winning the St leger than I would be him running in the KG as it could be a pretty ordinary G1 race this year unless something like Danedream turns up.I’m not saying that they shouldn’t still aim at the St.Leger, but if Camelot doesn’t run in any Championship race, be it the Eclipse, KG or Juddmonte, then wouldn’t you be a little bit surprised and very disappointed that the best 3 year-old middle distance colt in Europe was not asked to compete at least once against the older horses.
Say what you want about Henry Cecil’s campaigning of Frankel over a mile, but the fact is, the colt has run in every G1 mile race in the UK he was eligible to run in. If Ballydoyle do not run him outside of his own age group when he is almost certain to have optimum conditions at some stage, well that can be seen as protecting the value of their most prized asset.
I’m also excited by the prospect of seeing a Triple Crown winner, but attempting this doesn’t mean he has to miss all the other G1’s he could contest. Lets face it, it’s going to be a hell of a lot tougher to win the KG, Juddmonte or Eclipse than the St.Leger unless it turns up heavy at Donny, then they probably wouldn’t risk running him.
It makes perfect sense to run Camelot in the Juddmonte. The Juddmonte is nicely spaced between say the Irish Derby and the St.Leger on a flat level track, long run in, generally run on Good/Good to Firm, likely to be a smallish field. I would assume that he is capable of reproducing his best over 10+ furlongs.
Lets hope if Frankel turns up so does Camelot. I’d much rather see that than Camelot beating Thought Worthy by 2L with his head in his chest.
Why do people seem to think that Camelot has to race in England. He could quite as easily go to Germany and take on Danedream over 12f, which would probably prove more than running in the King George. The Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud would also be a viable alternative depending on the opposition. If 10f is not deemed a suitable trip at this stage of his career, then the UK and Ireland offer very little in the open-aged class.
Why do people seem to think that Camelot has to race in England. He could quite as easily go to Germany and take on Danedream over 12f, which would probably prove more than running in the King George. The Grand Prix de Saint-Cloud would also be a viable alternative depending on the opposition. If 10f is not deemed a suitable trip at this stage of his career, then the UK and Ireland offer very little in the open-aged class.
OR he could run in the Arlington Million.
Treasure Beach or Memphis Tennessee would likely to have been earmarked for that. The former is already a course winner and the latter ran well at Epsom whereas Camelot won despite not being particularly suited by the track. Being 10f there are more suitable targets in Europe.
If this is true it stinks of protectionism.
You might argue it makes business sense, SYT for the Eclipse, Astrology/Imperial Monarch for Irish Derby, St Nic for the King George, they are all more than capable of winning those races.
At the moment we are in the midst of having perhaps the greatest thoroughbred any of us have ever seen. If, as seems likely HRC campaigns Frankel over 10F this season then it would be reasonable to assume that the Juddmonte will be on his agenda. As SYT’s European campaign would have ended by then, Ballydoyle would have nothing (that I can think of) other than Camelot who you would give any conceivable chance to of beating Frankel.
The Juddmonte even fits snugly in the pattern to give a nice break before the St.Leger, if the Triple Crown is their goal. If Frankel turns up and Camelot stays away, barring injury/virus excuses, then I, and the vast majority of the racing public I suspect would see this as running scared.
However, you defended the decision not to try Frankel over further than a mile in his classic year. You cannot have it both ways.
Owners and trainers have the right to campaign their horses as they see fit. Idle gossip wins nothing on the racecourse.
But Cecil clearly didn’t believe that Frankel would get the trips over greater distances whereas Camelot clearly does get a mile and a quarter. There’s no comparison.
I agree totally with Hammy here. Frankel was campaigned at a mile because his trainer thought a mile would be his optimum trip at 3 and as he was to be kept in training there are plenty of opportunities to step up in 2012.
This bears little comparison to not taking on his elders at some point in the season. A run over 10F would also be a entirly in keeping in what others that have won the first two legs of the Triple Crown have done in the past. Royal Palace, Sir Ivor, Nijinsky, Nashwan and Sea the Stars all ran in 10F G1 at 3. The others that won one and was second in the other namely Mill Reef, Roberto, Grundy, El Gran Senor, Dancing Brave and Sir Percy all except EGS ran in 10F G1 at 3.
want’s to see theirs get beat. If I owned him and my jockey reported back 10 furlongs won’t suit him he pulls too hard then I wouldn’t run him…….would anyone?
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