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Off topic, does anyone else find the Sussex to be a strange target for this horse, unsuited as he’s seemed to be by the undulations of Epsom and Newmarket and given the improvement he showed at 10f, surely his best distance?
Agreed. I think tracks like Sandown, Newbury, Ascot would be far more suitable than Goodwood.
If Mastercraftsman goes for the Juddmonte and Fame And Glory does the Irish Champion there would probably be nothing for Rip till Ascot at the end of September,so I can see where their coming from. Nothing to lose by running him in the Sussex.
The ratings will be justified when RVW wins the breeders cup
Funny you should say that – there is a touch of Ravens Pass about this horse, as there is about Rainbow View as well.
I have looked at the Eclipse many times since the race and I think that the Rip is still learning and that he was actually coming back at STS in the final stage of that race. He did not lean on STS because he was tired but from inexperience.STS is a much more mature animal.Aidan never conceded that he was effectively beaten (in the interview after the race)and seemed to believe that if they met again he might turn the tables.
The ratings will be justified when RVW wins the breeders cup
Funny you should say that – there is a touch of Ravens Pass about this horse, as there is about Rainbow View as well.
Can’t see much similarity between Rainbow View and Raven’s Pass. The former was a precocious 2yo who now looks pretty exposed as not being quite good enough at 3yo. I wouldn’t fancy her to win a Group 1 this year, let alone one against the colts.
RVW clearly has the ability to win a G1 although I agree the Sussex looks a slightly odd choice. Ballydoyle seemed happy to sacrifice all of their other horses for RVW in the Derby. Now he has proved himself as a 130 horse, he is the one who has to run the wrong race!
……Aidan never conceded that he was effectively beaten (in the interview after the race)and seemed to believe that if they met again he might turn the tables.
what did you expect? Ballydoyle is all about boosting Coolmore.
John Oxx observed some days ahead of the Eclipse that there was "a lot of spin" coming out of Ballydoyle that if they had done this or done that, the result might have been different with Sea The Stars. "Its what they do", he said.
IMO their "multiple runners" policy suggests, at best lack of confidence, at worst desperation, over the abilities of their horses / urgency of finding a successor to Sadlers Wells.
there seems a touch about them at the moment of not being in quite the same ascendancy and maybe relying at the moment on accumulated market position.
their stud prospectus should accurately be littered with lines like:
" with the help of X pacemakers / tactical runners [nominations to them also available], this horse managed to finish Y lengths second to ….":
for sure, they have to make the best of what they’ve got, but if they want to find the next true classic champion / stud, maybe they should go back to showing up in races with just one horse, seen to be capable of winning the race on its lonesome?
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I have looked at the Eclipse many times since the race and I think that the Rip is still learning and that he was actually coming back at STS in the final stage of that race. He did not lean on STS because he was tired but from inexperience.STS is a much more mature animal.Aidan never conceded that he was effectively beaten (in the interview after the race)and seemed to believe that if they met again he might turn the tables.
That was not quite my impression "in the flesh". Both horses ran slightly green, both are still learning; and Sea The Stars looked to have at least as much scope as the runner-up, both on preliminary inspection and in the race. He was bigger, certainly, but more unfurnished than the second horse.
The breathtaking thing was the way the winner – having been in front longer than Kinane wanted – was able to quicken again when the O’Brien horse came at (and into) him. By the actual line Sea the Stars was well on top, and the runner-up looked afterwards as if he’d given his all. I guess both had hard enough races. Time will tell.
Of course Rip Van Winkle
might
turn the tables in the future, but on this evidence (where the race was as you’ll perhaps agree set up for him) it would take a line of O’Brien pacemakers across the track, plus luck in running and Murtagh at his inspired best, to do it!
A word for Aidan O’Brien’s courtesy. I’ve seen it often in Ireland, but at Sandown too after the race he took time to shake hands and pose for a photo with anyone who cared to approach him. One man, plastic beer cup in one hand, looked down at the other (which had just received that sainted handshake) in wonder and disbelief. His face conveyed a bliss which said plenty about the kindness and humility of racing’s greatest current training asset.
Surely RVW is a classic example of a very talented horse who is going to be better as a 4yo. Very good at three but, if given the opportunity, better at four…..Ela Mana Mou, Daylami, Sakhee etc.
Say hi wit,
If you had a horse that finished first or second in a derby trial would you run the horse in the derby,especially if there were only five local contenders and none of them had a chance? Would it be consideres an act of desperation? What of the local runners? Why did they run? An act of comfidence? I don’t think so.hi andy
if i owned one horse, sure i’d run it.
if i owned six horses, sure i’d not run them against each other.
but then my interest in racing is for sport, not for business, so i never back more than one horse per race.
even if i was doing it for business and running my horses against each other as some kind of percentage play, i would expect my winner (if any) not to be held in the same regard as if it had done it on its lonesome.
best regards
wit
Say Hi
simply as a business prop. Coolmore picked up approx.520,000sterling by running 5 horses in the Derby. They also gave the race some dignity by not leaving the places to be filled by the local bunch of dodgers. As a breeding proposition there is a saying here that places look a lot better after you win a group race than before. eg to win the Irish adds to the value of your place in the English race also see Youmzain, his places look a lot better after a group one win than before.You presume to second guess Big John who probably races for pleasure now and does whatever he wants.By the way how do you find out which is the best of five trial winners? Run the Derby before the Derby, at home, the week before? How many odds on horses lose and how many 20 to1 horses win? Quite a few I would think.hi andy
i think any second-guessing would be more in fancying that a savvy leopard has suddenly changed its spots, against the ongoing interests of business partners and family.
if i was selling expertise in what sperm to ovum might produce, i would feel a bit silly if i was not able to assess fairly accurately the end-product actually standing in front of me a couple of years later.
similarly i don’t buy "filling the places with quality" argument if it comes at the cost of introducing team tactics, the only purpose of which can be to seek to manipulate what would otherwise happen.
to me multiple entries for the same owner automatically can only (a) devalue the achievements of the team members and (b) boost the achievements of the others. their existence in a race are very material to assessing the result.
as for Coolmore going hunting for place money – somehow i can’t see that as part of their big picture.
best regards
wit
even if i was doing it for business and running my horses against each other as some kind of percentage play, i would expect my winner (if any) not to be held in the same regard as if it had done it on its lonesome.
Don’t know how you can call having four 120+ rated 3yo’s come out of the Derby as a percentage play Wit. Subsequent results further proof they were all there on merit. Those ratings were achieved on proximity to the Guineas winner who runs for another stable. The breeding fraternity who pay oceans of money to visit Coolmore stallions or purchase Coolmore progeny by proxy wouldn’t share your opinion either.
Cav
if they are throwing four or six or however many darts at the board compared to one for everyone else, why isn’t that a percentage play ?
even more so if they produce so many darts that there are not enough races to aim them at one by one?
wit
Well if 4 of the 6 darts are genuine Group 1 horses I say fire away. Rest assured if having multiple entries was effecting the regard the breeding industry have for Coolmore stallions then Coolmore wouldnt be doing it, but that’s patently not the case.
I would love to see more competition in the sport Wit, but I don’t see why Coolmore / Ballydoyle should lower their standards for anyone. Up to the rest to join battle imo.
say Hi
You know I don’t believe that Coolmore has a "big picture" any more. They own the market in Europe, the US, and Australia. They are the No 1 in bloodstock. They are selling off group horses to beat the band every year. They just need more millionaire people to join the party.Come aboard but wait your turn. Last year was for Tabor; this year is for Smithy. Put up the money and I will give you the classic winners. Big John is giving his in-laws horses to train, people he would never patronize if they were not blood! He offered Spencer the job ahead of Fallon!! I mean get real if it was about business that would never be happening.He offered Ferguson the opportunity to have fun except he did not realize that making money was more fun for Alex than winning!
He really thought he might be 1st 2nd and 3rd at Epsom this year. Now that would be fun!! If he don’t run in the Derby who will? Godolfin? So the big picture is about maybe family and fun at his age.Having said that if you don’t win, half a million is still half a million.Buy Christmas toys for the grand children it would.
Having said that Aidan is still competitive but he is a lot younger!
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