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Anyone thinking of doing one?
I’ve been working on something that might work but don’t want to tread on anyone’s toes.Am thinking of a 2019 TRF European Flat Ten To Follow, based on points for British, Irish and French Group 1, 2, 3’s… And also including German Group 1’s (Possibly German Group 2’s too). Either starting with the first Group 3 of the British turf season – Nell Gwyn – or 2000 Guineas day; finishing Champions day.
With bonus points based on SP of winners and placed horses.
Is there a call for a Flat Ten To Follow?
If so I would need help with scoring.Value Is EverythingI think this forum has reached saturation point with competitions, there’s enough already, and there’s a real danger of this becoming The Competition Forum.
Ordinarily I might have been interested in a flat one, but definitely not in the format you mention, which you appear to have overthought.
I would be really interested in joining this type of competition.
I do remember from the Racing Post/Tote Ten To Follow days, the Flat
did not attract as many entries as the Jumping Competition, so it may
be difficult to get it going.But any views from other potential entrants would be great to see.
Many Thanks
John
“Overthought”, Kris?
How?
It’s simple.
Fair point of competition overkill on the forum though.
How would you suggest I change it?Value Is EverythingOk, overthought may be the wrong term. It was more that is it really necessary to include German group races. It would just be a bastardised version of the same competition that Nathan ran two seasons ago, which he eventually let slide.
I stand by my original sentiment though, this Forum really doesn’t need any more competitions.
Was that the Group 1 and Group 2 Competition you’re on about, Kris?
I’ve just looked up that competition. It involved TRFers making selections in at least 45 races in a season; 45 times each TRFer needed to study a different race to make selections.
What I am proposing is solely a 10 To Follow competition. For TRFers taking part, only thing they’d need to do is select 10 horses at the start of the season – that’s it.
With the success of VTC’s Jumps Ten To Follow, I just thought Flat fans deserved something.
Designed this to be a European Flat competition. imo Best German races deserve to be in such a competition. Other than GB, Ire and Fr, only other European Group 1 races are in Germany and not many of them, so doesn’t require much work to include. German horses Danedream and Novelist won recent runnings of the King George, Danedream won the Arc the previous year and I believe was favourite for a repeat before prevented from travelling by a German-wide disease. (Only needed to produce her previous Arc or King George form to beat Solemia. If I remember rightly Novellist was injured/retired so couldn’t run in Paris. Imagine a German horse winning both King George and Arc together with three German Group 1’s. Someone selecting that horse should imo be fully rewarded; but yes; I could drop the German races.
Value Is EverythingYou are right about our big successes with Danedream and Novellist, Ginger, but that is history.
Unfortunately recent German racing has declined dramatically and it is fighting for survival.
For example our derby is observed and in danger of losing its G1 status and trainer wise it is quite onesided here, as most of the remaining bigger ones are won by Markus Klug.
So I must admit German racing isn’t too interesting currently
.Views are starting to emerge and I think that some thought should be given to the subject of
what horses can be selected ie can you chose any horse you like. Next problem is reserves, at
what stage of the season can this be done? Also is it to be just Group races?Another thought is it to be one entry per person and will there to be any charge to enter.
Myself I would prefer just one entry but would not object to a small entry fee if a prize would
attract more entries.Thanks
JohnSounds right up my street Ginger, even though I’m a jumps man, but I think it would take a
great deal of your time. I’m sure VTC could give you the low down, but I’m also pretty sure
he ends up pulling his hair out at times. I think it was well summed up by Joe (Steeplechasing)
some years back with the 10 to Follow, as “trying to herd cats”
Good luck if you go for it
Kris, I don’t know about the forum reaching saturation point with competitions, but they are all
in the competitions thread. Anyone not into competitions can just ignore that section and concentrate
on the various horse racing sections. Horses for courses as they say
Since Novellist’s 132 Timeform rating in 2013… there’s been Protectionist, Sea The Moon, Ito and Dschingis Secret all rated between 125 and 128. That’s as good as many good British and Irish Group 1 winners. eg Sea The Moon in his year was rated the same as 2000 Guineas winner Night Of Thunder and QEII winner Charm Spirit. In 2018 top rated German horse was Iquitos 124; amongst several to achieve that rating since 2013. True though, German racing is not as competitive as it used to be; so may be I should drop German racing.
Value Is EverythingMight be a small prize John – unless TRF can come up with something better. Haven’t given that much thought. Free to enter and 1 entry per TRFer.
Any horse can be selected.
Only Group races count.
Not a fan of “reserves”; enables those at the top of the tree to select horses that might (without reserves) prevent them from winning. But I might be persuaded otherwise.Value Is EverythingI know those ratings, no need to quote them all.
But the general situation is as I just said..Yes BigG, it will take quite a bit of time; why I said will need some help with scoring.
Am happy to give all or most scores of the races/horses themselves; but will need help with putting those horse scores in to each entry’s 10 to follow.
eg last year’s 2000 Guineas day would’ve been scored:
Palace House Group 3:
200 Mabbs Cross 9/2 90 points = 290
100 Judicial 10/1 30 points = 130
50 Alpha Delphini 7/1 14 points = 64Jockey Club Cup Group 2:
400 Defoe 1/2 10 points = 410
200 Red Verdon 14/1 42 points = 242
(5 runners so only two score)2000 Guineas:
1000 points Saxon Warrior 3/1 60 points = 1060
400 Tip Two Win 50/1 150 points = 550
200 Masar 5/2 5 points = 205
(Should 4 runners score in a Group 1 of 14+ runners? If so it would be:
100 Elarqam 5/1 5 points = 1052019 Scores (The day added to any previous scores):
Saxon Warrior 1060
Defoe 226 + 410 = 636
Tip Two Win 550
Masar 270 + 205 = 475
Mabbs Cross 290
Red Verdon 242
Judicial 130
Elarqam 105
Alpha Delphini 64Masar and Defoe have theirs added to Craven and John Porter.
I would then hope someone else could put those bolded scores in to each 10 To Follow.
May be get some volunteers each week. TRFers could volunteer to do 4 different weeks of a season or just 1 would help (or half, ie doing those TRFers whose names begin with A to M).
Or alternatively TRFers score their own 10 from the above, and I’d check each person’s list periodically.Value Is EverythingI would definitely up for this. Would do my bank balance wonders if I hibernated during the winter, so the more flat-orientated competitions the better.
Im definitely up for this Ginge
and with respect am glad that Hein talked you out of including the German races. I like the concept of 10 horses to follow through the flat season but feel that we should be allowed at least 3 reserves to allow for injury etc.
Also your scoring system seems to be very complex and could make life more difficult, especially if you want help from time to time. I don’t see the point of scoring points for placed horses…
Could we not just simply..
1.Select 10 Flat Horses to compete in Group Races in UK, Ireland and France.
2. Select 3 Reserves
3. Award points ONLY to winning horses,
4. 100 Points awarded to Group 1 winner. 75 Points Group 2 and 50 Points for a Group 3 winner. Plus their SP’s.
5. One horse could be NAPPED and awarded Double Points every times it wins a Group race.
*************************************</This way it could be an enjoyable and easy to score competition..
What do you think?Looking forward to it Ginge…Jac
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