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Despite that – Enable still wins by at least 3 lengths I reckon.

Yes, because it is not as good a race as is being made out.

I assume you won’t be backing any of the list you put up Joni? There are some huge outsiders there for all their achievements to date.

I know I am not backing any of them anyway, it’s a bit like the movie Highlander this season:-

“One dream, one soul, one prize, one goal, one golden glance of what should be……It’s a kind of magic, there can be ONLY ONE, this rage that lasts a thousand years, will soon be done” (7th October to be precise)

A Gypsy fortune teller told me she had a vision and in that vision the Arc winner rhymed with Vince Cable it doesn’t get more clear cut than that.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Too Darn Hot has opened at an average of 4/7 Fav for the Champagne Stakes on Saturday.

Dark Vision varies greatly, from Coral on 7/2 and Paddy Power on 8/1. I am with Paddy Power here and Coral need to get Dark Vision pushed out from 7/2 or they won’t take a penny piece on him.

The Vintage Stakes simply compares very badly with the Solario. Dunkerron was runner up to Dark Vision but he stank the place out at Sandown. Even if we ignore that run, Vintage Stakes 3rd Confiding was beaten more than 4 lengths further by Too Darn Hot, than he was by Dark Vision and the fact of it is that Confiding is by far the best performance to emerge from that Vintage Stakes since.

Mark Johnston is bullish about Dark Vision but the form of that Vintage Stakes looks weak now. 7/2 is laughable for me, when there is 8/1 to be had elsewhere. Dark Vision’s previous race has thrown up some winners but nothing worth getting excited about unless you like looking to Thirsk and Wolverhampton for quality 2YO’s.

I liked the look of Quorto but his form hasn’t been working out and I feel a mile is what he probably needs in the search for improvement. 21 runners have come from Quorto’s two races since and the number to win has been zero, zilch, nil, nixy, nada, hee haw, SFA and a big fat duck. Considering that was a Group 2 Quorto won, it’s bitterly disappointing and the only thing superlative about that race was the race title. I am concerned about his form and this time I feel it’s Paddy Power who are way short on 7/2 Quorto and Sky Bet seem much more on the mark with 13/2, considering the form of Quorto has pretty much zero franking.

Phoenix Of Spain got a kick in the baws the way Watan ran next time and neither of his two wins has worked out well. I’m not a Charlie Hills follower either, so he’s an easy pass for me in the Champagne.

I think Too Darn Hot will win but rather than back him at 4/7 or so, I would think there was better value in backing him for the 2000 Guineas and Derby at 6/1 and then selling him back in the aftermath of a win, when his odds will surely be skinny.

“Buy for a dollar, sell for two”

Prop Joe The Wire

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Other past winners of the Prix Des Chenes were Bago, who went on to win the Arc and Dalakhani, who won the French Derby and The Arc.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Ham, that French race was a group 3 not Listed. It’s a race that’s been won by some decent types over the years, Cloth Of Stars being a recent winner.

The Racing Post have awarded 106 to Anodor for yesterday’s win a rise of 19 lbs but in order to keep it from being a 25 lbs rise, he has gone back to the previous race and raised both Anodor and Persian King by 6 lbs each. In essence he has admitted that he underrated both colts.

The trouble is that in rating Persian King 84 for his second run, he now has him improving only 2 lbs for his six length win from his first race now rated 82.

The scenario now is that Anodor improved 19 lbs for his second run and Persian King, who looked the colt with more physical scope, is supposed to only have improved 2 lbs.

I am satisfied that my notion of an underrated race has been proved correct. The assessor has admitted such but I doubt he’s corrected it by enough. If Persian King goes to the Royal Lodge and goes close the Racing Post assessor will need to revisit Persian King’s previous run and do some more serious correcting in an effort to save face.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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There’s a stuck record playing here and I have already stated that I am not listening.

Anyway, keeping on to matters that may actually assist readers, Freddy Head stated that Anodor is a horse with a a relaxed tempaerament and a very nice kick. You could see the horse increase his cadence to put the race to bed quickly and there was never any doubt on the result.

Freddy Head added that they may not run the colt again this season as they feel he will be much better as a 3YO and they don’t want to overrace him this year. All the same they may have a go at the Group 1 Prix Lagardere because that is the next logical step if they are going to race him again this season.

Paddy Power go 20/1 on Anodor for the 2000 Guineas.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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It’s the inconsistency though Jack. A maiden like Bruce Wayne gets rated 100 and raised 32 lbs to get there. There is no solidity to the form there either, it was just two horses who had met seven days before and there was nothing to frank the form in between. That’s a load of welly in my opinion without giving any due consideration for underperformances and potential underperformers on the day in the second race.

Nothing wrong with people wanting to believe it if they wish. We will all know in the future. I am just offering an alternative view that strays from the familiar path in search for an angle and to perhaps pinpoint bad ratings.

In rating some horses too low to begin with, assessors are faced with having to give a crazy raise to play catch up and it looks like a horse made one massive leap, when the truth was probably two more even sized improvements.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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They are playing awful tonight. Should have been home and hosed.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Hope you are counting on both sides Corm. Fair, fair and all that.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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I think Enable needs to go on and win the Arc to cement herself as a “Great” of the game.

It would also be good for The Arc, as I don’t think it’s a vinage renewal. To see a Group 3 and weak Group 2 winner landing the Arc would be a bad result for the quality of the race.

Seeing previous winners with plenty Group 1 form triumph is what we should all be hoping for.

Thanks for the kind words Ant. Most on here would rather Dec me.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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For someone who wanted the thread focused on the topic, there hasn’t half been some distracting bullplop written.

Anyway, back on topic and Anodor, who beat Persian King when they made their debuts, landed the Group 3 Prix Des Chenes today. He set a modest looking pace before kicking two lengths clear and maintaining his advantage all the way to the line.

Anyone who feels these are 80 rated colts that we are looking at in Anodor and Persian King then good luck to them but when Andre Fabre thinks about supplementing a colt for the Royal Lodge and describes him as his best 2YO then good luck rating that horse 84.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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What part of me not being interested in anything you have to say do you not understand?

There is nothing to “sought” sic out, there is nothing to sort out either. You have the personality disorder, not me.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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I can’t have Capri at all. He was 17th of 18 runners last season, having come in after landing the Irish Derby and Leger. He seemed at the top of his game in the lead up to the race.

Since that race, Capri has only run once in winning by a head from a horse rated 16 lbs inferior. That was a 10F race and a bit short but it was soft/heavy and I think he would actually have been caught had it been another half furlong.

For sure, that race was miles away from an Arc and it is hard to fathom that Capri sits shorter in some places than he was for last year’s Arc with many more negatives this time around.

Cracksman just hasn’t had the season that was expected. There was talk that he’d never be beaten again and even a comparison with Frankel’s racing action in which Cracksman came out the better looking mover. For me, if we take away the 7 length win over Poet’s Word it looks a whole lot less sexy for Cracksman.

There seemed quite a consensus last year after the Epsom and Irish Derbies that Cracksman looked an awkward mover. I compared him to the middle distance runner Peter Elliott and that resonated with some others on the forum. The trainer’s reluctance to chance Cracksman on better ground seems to hint that he perhaps needs a good bit of cut to be seen at his best and when asked if the horse might show something really special before the start of the Prince Of Wales, Gosden tellingly replied “Maybe in the Autumn”

I don’t like the way Cracksman has looked this year and I like the way he has been campaigned even less.

I have Cracksman at 5/1 from earlier in the season and if it’s gutters, and he’s back to form he will have potential but blind faith won’t help him.

At the same 5/1 odds, Enable has to be my best chance and there is little to fear for her if she comes on as you would expect. Gosden doesn’t think she will bounce and it was a pretty straightforward comeback for her. Who would put their life on the line that Crystal Ocean will reverse form?

I have £2 on Saxon Warrior from last year at 50/1. That bet looked OK up until the Epsom Derby but the slip was washed out to the seaside wrapped around a “Floater” many moons ago. I don’t envisage having to comb the beaches for that one.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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I am just not interested in reading what Gingertipster has to say, so if he’s writing to try to tell me things I already knew thirty years ago, he is simply wasting his time.

Nobody else on the forum gets the endless, incessant essays that I am expected to put up with, so please think about it from my point of view.

The deal is that I write with my opinion from a considered view point, nothing that Gingertipster says is going to change my mind, so it’s totally futile. Then there is the patronising tone and the catty digs that I am supposed to take and then he goes running to the moderators wanting my replies removed. Doesn’t get what he wants from the mods and then takes the huff saying that he’s resting and may be back for the Leger, yet hey ho, yet again, he’s back in five minutes and getting in a tizz, reckoning he knows better than John Gosden how fit Enable was yesterday.

There is no point in conversing with Gingertipster, because even when you’ve been proved correct he has a list of excuses and theories to suggest you just fluked it.

I never go onto Gingers thread to comment on his selections or have catty digs at his losers. I think you will find that it is he who comes in and starts on something I have said, EVERY SINGLE TIME. I do my best to completely ignore him to avoid friction but despite his claims that he will stick to his own thread, he is always back within minutes and 95% of the time it is something I have said that he is back for.

It’s like having a stalker in public life and there IS a personality flaw present in his character, the was soon evident to me and it’s self confessed.

As I say, have a think about what it is like to be the butt of another person’s obsessions.

This is my last season, it’s taken longer for me than was expected to get set up for fostering cats until they can get permanent homes through Cats Protection but it should happen in the next month. It hasn’t stopped some people here getting dirty digs in about feeling sorry for the Cats I will be looking after. I am doing my best to help a charitable organisation but get the piss ripped and get called a racist into the bargain but it’s others who get the sympathy and I am expected just to take getting crapped on.

Time will tell how it goes but I’ve got some really good ante-post bets this autumn and for next year and maybe one day one of them might win, it’s been disaster after disaster this spring and summer but that’s the nature of the game.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Seabird, there is so little comment on the main thread anyway, certainly very little that ever helped anyone find a winner.

I suppose if enough people are interested they could find this thread but the search facility on the site is awful. I guess 2YO betting is not everyones cup of tea and this forum is much more of a jumps forum anyway.

Hey ho, this will be my last season anyway, I should have some cats in the back garden in a foster pen by Arc time.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Writing rather a lot for a man resting until the Leger meeting aren’t we.

The proof will reveal itself in good time.

You write like a flustered man with problems. I don’t know of anyone who would write so much to prove nothing.

Perhaps that rest is badly needed. Very obssessive behaviour.

ps You know what, I don’t give a monkeys what you think, you are a Timeform junkie that prays at the feet of their Gods. My opinions are mine solely, something you will never manage.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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I reckon Stoute may feel Crystal Ocean can’t turn it around with Enable and won’t run him in the Arc. I know I wouldn’t bother.

Some people place a bet, know they have little chance of collecting on it and then simply move on. Others seem to need to talk themselves into thinking the bet still has a chance.

What were the odds on Crystal Ocean before today’s race anyway? He’s red across the board and surely some of that is because he was handed his plums on a platter by a horse who had been off for 11 months, rather the bluster about not having a definite target yet.

Crystal Ocean has won 3 Group 3 races and one Group 2. He was odds on in that 5 runner race and the form isn’t worth much. Half of the runners seemed to go on to take Stradivarius on, so were unlikely to appreciate a mile and a half on quick ground.

An awful lot of Crystal Ocean’s hope is based on his King George run. There is a chance it wasn’t as good a race as was first thought. Enable is much more assured, as a multiple group 1 winner and Arc Champion. It’s like holding up a wee willie winkie sausage, against the late John Holmes, when vying for a role in Dessie Does Dallas.

As I said earlier, the 9/4 was still worth taking. Best price now is 7/4 and William Hill got it wrong going 5/2 after the race today.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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Gustav Klimt ran on well, ironically looking like 7F would have suited better today. He’s a frustrating horse for sure.

Sir Dancealot just never turned up today, he seemed devoid of any pace and a supplement for the Melbourne Cup might not be a bad shout on today’s showing.

The Tin Man and I have never formed a bond. When I back him he can’t get it done but free of my money he has a superb record.

Harry Angel came home like a champ last season but like a pure chump this time “Muck and nettles” horse as Sid Waddell used to say at the darts.

Well done to the Tin Men, he TOTOly deserved that one.

Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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