Forum Replies Created
- Posts
According to Sporting Life today (edited):
Exciting chaser Weapon’s Amnesty is likely to make his eagerly anticipated return in November.
"He’s in good form at the moment and the plan is for him to be out somewhere in November," said Byrnes.
"I haven’t got anything earmarked at the moment and the thing with him is that he has to go left-handed.
"The plan after that would be to go to Leopardstown for the Lexus Chase over Christmas.
"I’m confident his ability remains intact as he hasn’t got much mileage on the clock."
A friend tells me Long Run has grown again over his summer holiday.
I’m slightly dubious as to whether it’s a genuinely dual-purpose venue or simply a jump course with the occasional Flat meeting.
Ignoring two mixed meetings, there have been 17 days’ worth of Flat racing at the Trimsaram venue so far, attracting a total of 860 declared runners. That works out at
50.59
decs per meeting.
Those 17 meetings have collectively comprised 108 races, giving rise to an average of
7.96
declared runners per race.
No single Flat fixture at Ffos Las has attracted more than 63 overnight decs, and although that "high" was last equalled as recently as July 11th, that fixture – in common with the course’s other best-patronised Flat fixtures – took in seven races. No six-race card there has bettered the 20th October 2010 tally of 61.
Not astonishing figures by any stretch of the imagination, then, and they would be lower still were I to have used actual runners rather than those declared to run (which will, of course, factor in eventual non-runners).
(NB I will post equivalent figures for jumps fixtures and races once I’ve worked them out, but I’d imagine them to end up a touch better.)
Dai Walters isn’t anywhere near as much of a "Flattie" as he is a jumps man, and it’s entirely possible for all we know that hosting races on the level at Ffos Las is regarded by him as merely something of a contractual obligation, an absolute prerequisite of having been given the go-ahead to build the course.
Certainly there was no suggestion in any of the proposals submitted for the course that it would be jumps-only, which I suppose leads to the question of what would happen if Walters ever approached the powers that be with a view to giving up on Flat fare entirely. Would it be permitted? If not, why not? Nottingham and Windsor were allowed to go single-code during the 1990s, of course, though I couldn’t pretend to know what machinations that process might have entailed.
A different track is used for the Flat fixtures, so there is no question of these events currently denigrating the jumps line. As such, it wouldn’t be hard to envisage a time when – assuming this unfortunate business with fixture allocation is settled positively – jumps racing is staged over different lines at different times of the year.
Alternatively, or as well as, the erstwhile Flat course can be redeployed for Arab racing (which had successfully visited the track within weeks of its grand opening), trotting (still very popular indeed in west and central Wales, I gather) or Point-to-Points (offering an alternative to the likes of Lydstep for those hunts without a venue since the demise of Bonvilston and Erw Lon).
Lots of possible options going forward, then, regardless of what the future holds specifically for Flat racing.
gc
If the course needs 20+ fixtures to survive, would they have been able to stage that much jumping, even with more than one track?
Also, do we know which fixtures have been lost? Are they date specific? I’m not at all sure how the bidding/allocation works.
The "Welsh Champion Hurdle" is (or was last year) a Class 2 race and not a pattern race, though, so at this point it’s just a race with an historic name. That’s one of the reasons it wasn’t restaged when the meeting was abandoned in 2010.
I’m fairly sure the original Welsh Champion Hurdle at Chepstow ended its days (a mercy killing at the time) as a handicap, having been demoted from Listed status as it withered away (I’ll check). The initial according of Class 2 status to the Ffos Las contest, rather than anything grander, was therefore a realistic one before the revised event’s worth could be proven.
As much as the status of the race didn’t lend itself to rescheduling, though, at least as key a decision was the inability of the course exececutive to secure terrestrial broadcast rights for it whenever it might have been scheduled.
Dai Walters was adamant that Channel 4’s cameras needed to be present to showcase both the race and the course; hence moving the fixture
en bloc
from January 9th in 2010 (an extra January Saturday cause by a wrinkle in the calendar) to February 5th in 2011.
gc
Yes, it did indeed dwindle and then die, but I don’t think goes against the point I was making. The original poster said the course was deemed good enough to hold the Welsh Champion Hurdle, implying it was hosting something of high status. But it’s not – it’s a race that Walters (commendably) wants to revive and rebuild, but that’s not the same as transferring an existing, thriving graded race to the course.
And I did say it was only one reason mentioned at the time (this is 2009), not the only reason. Because it wasn’t a pattern race, the course would have had to fund the race itself they weren’t prepared to do that.
As I say, I’ve nothing against the course at all. I’d be disappointed if it closed.
water is surprisingly unsoft, Ten Plus, especially hit at speed, and its also hard to move through – of course we don’t know what the bottom of the lake was like either. However I think the problem came when he was hit by the horse following.
Without wanting to be too blunt, my understanding from better German speakers than myself is that a post mortem is or has been done and there was uncertainty at the time as to whether he drowned or died from injuries sustained.
I’m really hoping Long Run develops into a great champion, I love everything about the horse and both Robert and Sam W-C have been great. Sam’s had so much stick being an amateur but whenever I’ve met him or Robert Waley-Cohen they’ve been really nice and almost embarrassed by people’s congratulations.
Also hope Weapon’s Amnesty comes back in good form. And so many going novice chasing to look forward to!
My wish is Nicholls sticks with his plans (for a change) and brings a fresh Denman to Cheltenham, and that I get to applaud him back into the enclosure for his farewell appearance. I so hoped he was going to win last year (for all I love Long Run, he has years ahead) and I really want him to sign off with one last epic Gold Cup performance.
Phil – Jason has broken vertebrae in his neck so surely he won’t be back for some time?
That’s horrendous, poor Thumbs Up. My German is non-existent but google translate suggests the jockey’s been banned for a month as a result?
btw, I do tend to agree regarding the AW. It was meant to help prop up betting revenue in the winter, not be 12 months a year, and if the BHA had more control over the fixtures I’d hope that would be the dross they’d chop… Although it does seem to pull in the size of field that they’re aiming for.
Not sure of the flat program but A.P. McCoy and other jockeys on the. national hunt scene was impressed by the track when trying for the first time. They also deemed it worthwhile to run the Welsh champion hurdle on it.
The "Welsh Champion Hurdle" is (or was last year) a Class 2 race and not a pattern race, though, so at this point it’s just a race with an historic name. That’s one of the reasons it wasn’t restaged when the meeting was abandoned in 2010.
No matter how impressed people were by it, is the size of the fields backing that up? I had a look back from the beginning of June til now. In 9 meetings (I may have missed one) only 3 races had double figure fields and most seemed to be that 7 runners or fewer that the BHA are trying to do away with.
Part of Walters plan was to get the Irish over. In 2009/10 Gordon Elliott sent 8 runners over. Last season it was 6. He’s not sent any (yet) this season, even though he’s sent more runners (65) to Perth than he did in the last two years and his first runners to Hereford (ever? Since 2007/8, anyway). Walters said the economic downturn had affected the Irish attendance at the course, but is it more than that?
I wouldn’t want to see Ffos close but in the end I agree with Bob Davies. How can you put together a business plan that relies on you getting almost 50% more fixtures than you can be sure of?
Hopefully Walters will secure enough fixtures at the revised bidding to allow the course to continue, but perhaps he needs to rethink his plans for the course.
As long as its on More4, where’s the problem? Ten years ago they’d have either not bothered with any racing, just had the shortened Ch4 prog, or stuffed the races into suitable gaps in the athletics (as they did when they covered cricket). This is a much better option than any of those!
As far as I’m concerned, the summer is just a chance to wind down while I wait for October. I don’t pay attention to summer jumping either. The only useful thing about the flat turf season is trying to pick out the future juvenile hurdlers in the 3yo crop. I’m starting my walking exercise now so I can build up for the opening meeting at Cheltenham.
And yes, I’ve seen Frankel, and yes, he’s impressive but he’ll be dust in the wind at an age when Kauto was just starting to rise to the top.
James Fanshawe uses them – Elite’s 3yo Llewellyn runs in one and he was one of three runners at Kempton last week JF sent out with a hood.
I’m sure after Chachamaidee won at Goodwood, Cecil said he liked using them with fillies.
Mary King was nearly 6 months pregnant when she was part of the gold medal winning British eventing team in 1995. I know a fair number of women who continued to ride well into their pregnancies and worked around horses as long as they were able to do so.
Firstly I want to thank Silvoir. I still think the plain guilty/not guilty should have been known when the hearing concluded, but Silvoir has been very decent in coming here and explaining things and (as Corm says) banging his head on the wall. I’m delighted with the result though and have read through the panel’s report a couple of times.
First read through of the report all I could think was – that poor bloody horse. Ok, the op might have stopped him feeling pain but how did it address the thing that was causing the pain and threatening to damage his foot? I know the Monet’s case proves it can be worth persevering but this didn’t seem to be addressing the root of the problem at all.
Seeing JHJ’s comments this morning he just doesn’t seem to get it, does he? Even if someone does have it in for him, if he hadn’t been doing the wrong things then he’d still have his license. And so what if the mysterious informant was paid? By speaking to the BHA whoever it was was endangering their job and possibly their chances of any future job. Being brave is good but starving for it is foolish.
I’ve heard rumours for long enough that I’m not sorry that he’s gone. Sorry for his staff and those who made a living from the yard but not JHJ. Not feeling the love towards Wylie either.
Pathfork has had a wind op but he hasn’t run since. Pipette has had a wind op, I think during the off season.
That was what I assumed (seeing him down reminded me very much of Detroit City) – what I’m hoping is that it wasn’t brought on by having the hood round his nose and was just a horrible coincidence.
2. I didn’t say the racing press or any other press were disinterested – quite the opposite. All I said was that none of them raised Joe’s very specific point about the 7/8 day wait for a result being a disaster for racing.
Fair enough, I misunderstood that.
3. On the basis we’ve said full reasons will be published by next Weds, we will proactively release the result and it will be widely distributed by us (and widely covered by the press), anyone who thinks it’s going to be brushed under the carpet isn’t really thinking.
I’ll try not to take offence at this. However I think there is an issue here which is that
you
are not thinking like many people do. You have a different position, you know if "justice has been done", and you have the background in that side of the sport. I, on the other hand, have a large number of friends whose interest in horse racing varies from the odd punt on the big day, to shares in horses, to current and former stable staff. I can only reflect their feelings – he admitted the surgery, so anything less than a long ban will be brushing it under the carpet.
Most of these people never read the BHA disciplinary pages. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m the only one who does with any regularity. So they don’t care about the reasoning. What they don’t understand is why, when this has gone on so long, you can’t just say "JHJ has been found guilty/not guilty", and say that that if the former, the sentence will be announced by this date, and he’ll have x time to appeal.
It really doesn’t help that they know that JHJ knows, and now Wylie is coming out and moving his horses, talking about how he’ll have no horses trained up north if he’s banned etc.
5. If he’s in breach and if people feel the Penalty is inadequate that will be a problem for us to deal with even though the Panel acts independent of BHA.
6. Even if the Panel (note, in light of point 5 above, the Panel, not me or BHA) had released the result, there would still be – if he’s in breach – ‘fervent speculation’ about the Penalty. And he’d still have his licence pending any penalty (which additionally deals with one of Joe’s points).
I reckon that’s probably all I can reasonably say on thus until we know the full result.
Of course there’d still be speculation but at least people would have a slightly more accurate basis to work from!
Anyway. I continue to appreciate your contribution. Not sure I’m looking forward to reading a 10,000 word judgement though…
