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what else can the do to reduce fixtures which we all think should be done
all
???
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
The "Welsh Champion Hurdle" is (or was last year) a Class 2 race and not a pattern race, though, so at this point it’s just a race with an historic name. That’s one of the reasons it wasn’t restaged when the meeting was abandoned in 2010.
I’m fairly sure the original Welsh Champion Hurdle at Chepstow ended its days (a mercy killing at the time) as a handicap, having been demoted from Listed status as it withered away (I’ll check). The initial according of Class 2 status to the Ffos Las contest, rather than anything grander, was therefore a realistic one before the revised event’s worth could be proven.
As much as the status of the race didn’t lend itself to rescheduling, though, at least as key a decision was the inability of the course exececutive to secure terrestrial broadcast rights for it whenever it might have been scheduled.
Dai Walters was adamant that Channel 4’s cameras needed to be present to showcase both the race and the course; hence moving the fixture
en bloc
from January 9th in 2010 (an extra January Saturday cause by a wrinkle in the calendar) to February 5th in 2011.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I’m slightly dubious as to whether it’s a genuinely dual-purpose venue or simply a jump course with the occasional Flat meeting.
Ignoring two mixed meetings, there have been 17 days’ worth of Flat racing at the Trimsaram venue so far, attracting a total of 860 declared runners. That works out at
50.59
decs per meeting.
Those 17 meetings have collectively comprised 108 races, giving rise to an average of
7.96
declared runners per race.
No single Flat fixture at Ffos Las has attracted more than 63 overnight decs, and although that "high" was last equalled as recently as July 11th, that fixture – in common with the course’s other best-patronised Flat fixtures – took in seven races. No six-race card there has bettered the 20th October 2010 tally of 61.
Not astonishing figures by any stretch of the imagination, then, and they would be lower still were I to have used actual runners rather than those declared to run (which will, of course, factor in eventual non-runners).
(NB I will post equivalent figures for jumps fixtures and races once I’ve worked them out, but I’d imagine them to end up a touch better.)
Dai Walters isn’t anywhere near as much of a "Flattie" as he is a jumps man, and it’s entirely possible for all we know that hosting races on the level at Ffos Las is regarded by him as merely something of a contractual obligation, an absolute prerequisite of having been given the go-ahead to build the course.
Certainly there was no suggestion in any of the proposals submitted for the course that it would be jumps-only, which I suppose leads to the question of what would happen if Walters ever approached the powers that be with a view to giving up on Flat fare entirely. Would it be permitted? If not, why not? Nottingham and Windsor were allowed to go single-code during the 1990s, of course, though I couldn’t pretend to know what machinations that process might have entailed.
A different track is used for the Flat fixtures, so there is no question of these events currently denigrating the jumps line. As such, it wouldn’t be hard to envisage a time when – assuming this unfortunate business with fixture allocation is settled positively – jumps racing is staged over different lines at different times of the year.
Alternatively, or as well as, the erstwhile Flat course can be redeployed for Arab racing (which had successfully visited the track within weeks of its grand opening), trotting (still very popular indeed in west and central Wales, I gather) or Point-to-Points (offering an alternative to the likes of Lydstep for those hunts without a venue since the demise of Bonvilston and Erw Lon).
Lots of possible options going forward, then, regardless of what the future holds specifically for Flat racing.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Given what appears to be free-draining track and being near the far Western seaboard, less prone to frost I’d like to see Ffos Las develop primarily a winter NH season.
Ffos Las seems a good quality track and has put on reasonable racing with generally very good trainer/jockey feedback.
It seems inevitable that they will lose some fixtures, but perhaps the level of cuts to their calendar does seem a bit harsh and unwarranted however.
As a radical, and potentially ‘interesting’ answer, could they come to an arrangement with Horse Racing Ireland to host a number of Irish fixtures?
I’m not sure on the ‘legality’ of such an arrangement, but given the location of the course and the participation of a number of Irish trainers for jump racing there which already exists, this could be worth a try out – especially given the general over subscription for maiden and mid-lower grade hurdles contests in particular…
Be an absolute disgrace if this excellent facility is allowed to close. There has been superb racing there over this formative time,and considering that several of the current top National hunt trainers are nearby ,well sited also. Besides that the local Saltmarsh lamb is out of this World.
I have only been to the course once but thought that it was a really good fist at providing a contemporary racing venue. I also concur that it is located in a real boom area for trainers of racehorses. It would be a travesty if it closed.
I would far rather have racing there than the seemingly endless product on the unnatural at Kempton for example.P.S I am an admitted luddite who prefers to watch racing on grass
I agree Corgy!
Fos las is far superior than Kempton, the glory days of this course have long since passed with the introdution of their sandpit.
The "Welsh Champion Hurdle" is (or was last year) a Class 2 race and not a pattern race, though, so at this point it’s just a race with an historic name. That’s one of the reasons it wasn’t restaged when the meeting was abandoned in 2010.
I’m fairly sure the original Welsh Champion Hurdle at Chepstow ended its days (a mercy killing at the time) as a handicap, having been demoted from Listed status as it withered away (I’ll check). The initial according of Class 2 status to the Ffos Las contest, rather than anything grander, was therefore a realistic one before the revised event’s worth could be proven.
As much as the status of the race didn’t lend itself to rescheduling, though, at least as key a decision was the inability of the course exececutive to secure terrestrial broadcast rights for it whenever it might have been scheduled.
Dai Walters was adamant that Channel 4’s cameras needed to be present to showcase both the race and the course; hence moving the fixture
en bloc
from January 9th in 2010 (an extra January Saturday cause by a wrinkle in the calendar) to February 5th in 2011.
gc
Yes, it did indeed dwindle and then die, but I don’t think goes against the point I was making. The original poster said the course was deemed good enough to hold the Welsh Champion Hurdle, implying it was hosting something of high status. But it’s not – it’s a race that Walters (commendably) wants to revive and rebuild, but that’s not the same as transferring an existing, thriving graded race to the course.
And I did say it was only one reason mentioned at the time (this is 2009), not the only reason. Because it wasn’t a pattern race, the course would have had to fund the race itself they weren’t prepared to do that.
As I say, I’ve nothing against the course at all. I’d be disappointed if it closed.
I’m slightly dubious as to whether it’s a genuinely dual-purpose venue or simply a jump course with the occasional Flat meeting.
Ignoring two mixed meetings, there have been 17 days’ worth of Flat racing at the Trimsaram venue so far, attracting a total of 860 declared runners. That works out at
50.59
decs per meeting.
Those 17 meetings have collectively comprised 108 races, giving rise to an average of
7.96
declared runners per race.
No single Flat fixture at Ffos Las has attracted more than 63 overnight decs, and although that "high" was last equalled as recently as July 11th, that fixture – in common with the course’s other best-patronised Flat fixtures – took in seven races. No six-race card there has bettered the 20th October 2010 tally of 61.
Not astonishing figures by any stretch of the imagination, then, and they would be lower still were I to have used actual runners rather than those declared to run (which will, of course, factor in eventual non-runners).
(NB I will post equivalent figures for jumps fixtures and races once I’ve worked them out, but I’d imagine them to end up a touch better.)
Dai Walters isn’t anywhere near as much of a "Flattie" as he is a jumps man, and it’s entirely possible for all we know that hosting races on the level at Ffos Las is regarded by him as merely something of a contractual obligation, an absolute prerequisite of having been given the go-ahead to build the course.
Certainly there was no suggestion in any of the proposals submitted for the course that it would be jumps-only, which I suppose leads to the question of what would happen if Walters ever approached the powers that be with a view to giving up on Flat fare entirely. Would it be permitted? If not, why not? Nottingham and Windsor were allowed to go single-code during the 1990s, of course, though I couldn’t pretend to know what machinations that process might have entailed.
A different track is used for the Flat fixtures, so there is no question of these events currently denigrating the jumps line. As such, it wouldn’t be hard to envisage a time when – assuming this unfortunate business with fixture allocation is settled positively – jumps racing is staged over different lines at different times of the year.
Alternatively, or as well as, the erstwhile Flat course can be redeployed for Arab racing (which had successfully visited the track within weeks of its grand opening), trotting (still very popular indeed in west and central Wales, I gather) or Point-to-Points (offering an alternative to the likes of Lydstep for those hunts without a venue since the demise of Bonvilston and Erw Lon).
Lots of possible options going forward, then, regardless of what the future holds specifically for Flat racing.
gc
If the course needs 20+ fixtures to survive, would they have been able to stage that much jumping, even with more than one track?
Also, do we know which fixtures have been lost? Are they date specific? I’m not at all sure how the bidding/allocation works.
an alternative to the likes of Lydstep for those hunts without a venue since the demise of Bonvilston and Erw Lon).
Update: contrary to close-season reports, Bonvilston will still be operative this coming season after all, though Erw Lon is definitely toast and one other current Welsh Pointing venue’s future remains uncertain at the time of writing. Still potentially something for Ffos Las to absorb were it ever to go down the Pointing route alongside the Rules one, then.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
I have always maintained that AW meetings should be banned during the grass season it’s ridiculous that even at the height of the flat the most recent form in a large number of races is from the sand. I’ve always considered the AW should have a season from the end of the flat until the end of the following March. Then one day Lingfield might manage an all grass meetings instead serving up these half and half monstrocities
I’m a new member on the forum and this is my first post, but seeing as they’ve delayed the date for the announcement of which fixtures are to be cut, I guess this is still relevant.
I’m currently on a mission to visit all the tracks in Britain and am on 43 (44 if you count 2 Newmarket) so from a selfish point of view, don’t want to see any tracks close. I did miss out on Great Leighs though.
I also think that there are people who love racing who get as much enjoyment from watching racing at Plumpton or Folkestone as do people watching Royal Ascot or the Cheltenham festival. I would suggest that many of the people who attend these bigger meetings and summer Saturdays at Newmarket and York probably don’t even know whether they’re watching champion racehorses or sellers, and don’t really care. And isn’t the diversity of courses and races in Britain part of what makes the sport so fascinating?
What gets me about the fixture list is that there are days in the calendar when there will be all-weather racing at Lingfield and Kempton on the same day, sometimes in the summer! Or one of these meetings will clash with somewhere like Goodwood or Folkstone. Surely attendances are affected? I guess Kempton, Wolverhampton and Southwell are given all-weather summer meetings as recompense for staging racing throughout the winter for a few diehards and the benefit of the betting shops.
If every course sacrificed one meeting, that would be 60 meetings lost at a stroke – although I appreciate places like Cartmel, Perth and summer jumps courses have less room for manouevre than others – and then cut some of the summer all-weather meetings, or even all-weather meetings in the winter when 2 fall on the same day.We visited Ffos Las for the first time on August 25 and were very impressed with what a beautiful course it was. It was in a great setting and, after staying in a £19 Travelodge room off the M4 near Swansea the night before to break up the journey, we followed the signs to the course and had a great day. I had previously visited all 59 courses (leaving aside Great Leighs, which I never managed to visit before it closed — I was waiting for the position of the temporary grandstand to be improved first and, sadly, left it too late).
The staff at Ffos Las (or VORSE Las, as raceday presenter Charlie Parkin insisted on calling it) were very friendly but we ended up paying £120 for meals in the posh restaurant after one of the staff said that the only other places to eat were burger vans. My girlfriend was threatening to give me a hard time if we did not do it properly after travelling from up north.
We did get a great view from the balcony outside the restaurant by paying the £120 and could look down from above at the winner’s circle from the balcony at the other side of the restaurant afterwards, without having to move too far from the restaurant. The meals were very good quality, too (just managed to bolt mine down before the first race) and you got a race card each included.
It would be an absolute tragedy if the course closed. Let’s hope they can get enough fixtures to keep it viable. Time will tell whether Dai Walters is bluffing in threatening to close the course.
This is my first day as a member of the forum but I have followed similar postings for some time with interest.
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