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I couldn’t believe the price either! and assumed that it was due to a huge plunge by the Irish on Bannow Bay, or Baracouda was going to run on crutches. In the event I threw caution to the wind and filled my boots.
Doumen like many jockeys rode as though possessed by some mystical sense of  over confidence. At one point I wondered if the horse would get so detached from the action that he may loose all interest in the race. In the end the jockeys confidence was rewarded, and although  the margin was not great he comfortably held Bannow Bay up the hill. I know he didn’t want to be in front too soon, but this great stayer was asked and delivered an awful lot.
Spook  I have many friends in the farming community and I find that many feel more mugged by the hunts attitude that they can charge over anybodys land even when asked not too, causing much more damage than the odd fox. One farmer who is a very good friend recently made the following statement to me in conversation. "Any farmer who looses much stock to foxes is a poor farmer" for example, good farmers like him have raised chicken coops or make other provision to protect their livestock.
If foxes have to be controlled lets hope its not by being chased to exhaustion and torn to pieces for pleasure.
I will make no further comments on this subject as I think the same ground is being covered.ÂÂÂ
Sal   We are all involved in what happens in our communities. We may not have been burgled or mugged or had any number of awful things happen to us to be greatly affected by these mindless acts and shout out loud our disgust of them.
I was born and brought  up in the countryside and still live there and I like many others have total contempt for fox and stag hunting and those who try to justify these sickening persuits.
Those who try to make out that it’s town people against country people are talking rubbish, huge numbers of the rural community are against hunting with dogs.
I am pleased to see that so many on the forum are against hunting, thank goodness for them and thank goodness it will soon be illegal. <br>
Escorial<br>Imagine you were forced to lay all your bets with me. This would be a dream for me, for while Mr Hill and Mr Ladbrokes and the rest were going 3/1 or bigger I would only give you 1/1 money. In the end you have got to loose, even though you may not believe this. However if you were not forced to bet with me, you would then go to one of the others and get better odds, you would then infact be finding the best value you could, even though it hurts you to admit it.
Unfortunately I’m eleven years older than you (gutted) but your name is Ron and you are a punter and a painter so you must be ok!
HAPPY BIRTHDAY<br>
Hi All <br>I was originally involved in this debate back on page 6 and I couldn’t believe it when I logged on and saw that it was still going strong, with old Escorial still giving it plenty of wallop and bloody good luck to him, he should have been a writer!
I don’t have much to add to what I stated earlier except for some simple observations. Bookmakers will always tell you "Don’t worry about the price son just get in there and punt it" I wonder why?  If you bet for pleasure and just want to make a few bob, you don’t need to get too worked up about it, but for those of you who either aim to suppliment your income through betting or indeed inspire to become professional the prices that you except become extremely importance.
In MY experience over many years I have never met a professional who LASTED who did not take the price that he was willing to back at extremely seriously, neither have I read of one!
I am now going to take a month or so’s break to do some painting (as in pictures) and generally enjoy life while preparing for Cheltenham and the start of the 2002 flat season. I am able to do this because apart from other things which apply to racing I am able to walk away when the price is not right. (Smart arse or what!)
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Escorial……My strategy is quite simple but very diciplined. I don’t work out a tissue and then back horses simply because they are priced up bigger, although many do. I prefer to back the horse I think will win provided I get the price I want. I set an absolute minimum if I can only achieve that price the horse carries my normal stake. The bigger the price over my minimum the more I will stake right up to my maximum. When unable to achieve my minimum price I walk, there is always another race or another day.
It seems to me though you are doing the next best thing by getting early prices or shows when possible. If you have enough accounts and take early morning prices it is possible to get better prices than on the course, but the bookies hate it.
I wish you well<br>ron b  <br>
Hi Escorial…..<br>You make your points with great passion and if they work for you I won’t knock them.
With regards to the analogy I gave, this is very simple business sense and believe me that certainly applies to racing.
I think any serious punter who disregards this does so at his peril, however we will have to agree to differ on that one. In answer to your question "why baulk at prices offered?" Many years ago I thought all that was necessary to win at racing was simply a matter of backing winners. Although this was naive at least I had the sense to record my bets including the prices I took and the returned s.p’s. Some years I made a little but generally lost over a year. As a result of being in the fortunate position of having some advice from a very good judge, I poured over my books, one of the things I did was list all the horses I had backed at better than s.p. I also listed the horses backed at worse than s.p. and guess what! a nugget of gold appeared. Those horses I backed at better than s.p. showed a good profit, the others ate up any profits. Backing winners of course is very important but so is avoiding losers. I am quite happy to pass over a winner that I believe is the wrong price as I know from experience that a number of such bets will most certainly produce losses.
Please disregard this advice as I also lay horses on Betfair.
All the very best<br>ron b
Hi all <br>I am a new member and find the debate interesting and enjoyable. I can see the point Escoriel is trying to make however I do not agree with him for the following reasons: If you are a punter who just likes a bet and this is just pleasure, fine, no need to get all wound up about the price, however if you are a serious punter or have to make  the game pay year in and year out as I do then the price you take is of huge importance.
Racing like any other business is dependant on amongst other things money management. If a grocer buys in his stock from a supplier who is charging more than his competitors suppliers he will eventually go broke. MY stock is horses , if I buy into them at any price Mr Hill or Mr Ladbroke decides, I will be very quickly be out of business. It is essential that I understand the market.
Odds accessors and market forces make many mistakes or if you like differ from me, who is right? My books say I am right enough of the time.(I hope this doesn’t sound arrogant, it’s just the truth).
Bookmakers and pro punters make their profits from the average punters all over the country not worrying about what price they pay for their stock or enjoyment.
ron b
