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I’m in agreement but maybe a bit further. I can’t pinpoint when the love went out of the game for me but it’s just not the same anymore.
I decided yesterday this would be my last race and if I can’t get excited about a dual national winner and such a lovely horse, well there’s no point really.
33 years, sone great ups and many downs. 17 or 18 years of them on TRF which I can’t get my head around!
Kauto, Denman or Desert Orchid? Can’t decide.
All the best to you all!
I’d rather watch old races on youtube these days, thanks to many uploaders but especially espmadrid’s brilliant channel!
My God the non stop shouting on ITV. The non stop searching-for-heart-wrenching “stories”. The banality of it all. Says a lot when Luke Harvey is one of the better presenters.
As we’re advised, when the fun stops it’s time to stop. I’ll (maybe) watch the Grand National tomorrow and call it day.
Changing the conditions of the race today would not be changing fcuking history.
It’s an anomoly that it’s a novice chase today because back in the day that was a way to keep it confined to “genuine steeplechasing hunters … farmers and hunting men”.
Is the race today composed of “genuine steeplechasing hunters … farmers and hunting men”? No. Changing it to a true hunter’s race (are there enough of those to go round these days?) or a veteran’s chase could achieve that. I’d even generously allow female farmers and hunting women to join in, bless them.
I’m against the idea of shortening the race or banning amateurs. If anything I’d like to see more of the old fashioned traditional amateurs with wooly jumpers and massive long stirrup leathers, but I think that battle is lost.
I think from the little I’ve found it has always been a novice chase even before it moved to Cheltenham. But it’s a historical anomaly. It was restricted to hunter chasers and horses that had won before the current season under rules were barred.
I imagine the intention was the field would be grizzly old hunters and point to pointers who had maybe won for years but outside rules races and the restriction was to stop the pro horses taking over.
Hence the odd situation now where it’s just inexperienced but good horses lining up.
Why not repurpose it as a pure hunter or veteran chase?
I don’t remember this as being a novices’ race in the distant past? Was it always?
This book would explain but I’m not buying at the current prices!
https://www.amazon.co.uk/History-National-Hunt-Chase-1860-2010/dp/0956725007
I can’t remember it not being a novice chase and I can’t find any freely available info on its history – but it can’t have always been a Novice chase if it used to be the second most important race in the calendar after the national.
Until about the 1950’s it was run on its own racecourse, with only the finish being on the racecourse proper. It used to cross the road and cover ground where the car parks are now.
It does seem to be an anomaly but once this race is banned or gelded, what will be next?
Edit: according to a poster on betfair, “It started as the principal race of the meeting and was open to horses that had not won any race (flat, hurdle) or any Chase other than a Point to Point before the current season. It was and still is restricted to amateur riders. About 20 years ago the conditions changed to allow flat and hurdle winners to compete so long as they qualified as novice chasers.”
So perhaps it has always been a novice chase.
Enjoyed the first three parts of the McCririck interview. Nice to see him without the shouting and showboating.
Sad to see he doesn’t look at all well.
Re the Amberleigh House owners, after John Halewood’s sad end, it seems that Halewood International still have a few horses in training, such as Red Square Revival. Sad to see that is with Pipe and not with McCain.
Proper horsey people will have a better answer, but here’s my ha’penny worth, it’s value is less than that…
Jockeys have a lot of control over the jumping because their body movements will often be interpreted as a sign by the horse to jump. My old riding coach used to talk about “forming the intention to….”, trained horses know that you want them to jump.
Obviously if you did nothing other than point the horse at a fence, it’ll probably jump it rather than just running straight into it. So it’s not like pressing a button, but a good rider gives the horse confidence and momentum into the fence.
You’ll often hear a jockey say “I asked for a long one at that fence”, meaning they passed on the signal to jump a stride earlier, risking a bold jump in preference to getting too close the fence. A good horse would respond to that signal. A bad horse would get confused and bungle it.
Some horses like Dessie are intelligent enough to get it more naturally, but I’m sure Simon Sherwood was passing on bodily signals even if it was subconscious. What he was probably experiencing there was total confidence in the horse, so he had to do less thinking and overt direction.
[Edit to add: you assume the jockey makes them slow down and speed up, but actually the argument is the same. You can pull on the reins all you like, if the horse decides to bolt, it’s gonna bolt. And as many new riders quickly learn, you can boot, kick and whip the poor nag, if it doesn’t want to go for you, it’ll plant its hooves. So it’s the same thing: you pass on signals and a good horse will respond, a bad horse will ignore. Conversely, a bad rider will sent mixed and confusing signals. Even an excellent rider may be having a problem with confidence, and a thoroughbred can pick up on those signals. I’m not commenting on Cue Card or Brennan here, just generally].
Oh my God the shouting. The endless shouting.
The nadir; 5 minutes of Fitzgerald and McCoy spouting the usual drivel “for one of these jockeys, today, it’s going to be a life changer, blah blah blah”, all the time you could clearly see behind them, the horses in the parade ring. When will these TV people wake up and realise it’s the horses that make this game?
Not ITV’s fault, but we don’t even get to see the horses after they’ve won. Apparently this is necessary, and the horsey types will know better than me if that’s true (when was it a problem in the past?), but even if it is necessary, it takes a lot away. Who really wants to see who pays the bills?
I couldn’t see the point of doing a virtual version of what will actually happen in less than 24 hours time. The winner is probably wrong, the 1234 is almost certainly wrong.
Why not the best 40 previous national winners, maybe with Desert Orchid, Arkle, Kauto and Denman thrown in as well? May as well make it a fantasy if all that effort’s going in.
My last was Red Marauder 2001. Used to get winner regularly. Rarely get a horse placed now.
1986, 1990, 1991, 1994, 1997, 1998, 2001.
Then, zip all. Different race now of course.
Hunt Holt and Hoiles have been at the top of the game for the last 15 years or so. After that its down to personal preference; I miss Simon Holt who I think gets the drama and excitement right (I don’t think its fake).
I think Holt is the best commentator the UK has ever had. (Drop controversial bomb and exits stage right).
Yes always confused me this, but in a selling race all of the horses in the race are available to be claimed except the winner (which gets auctioned). You’ve pretty much got it, the difference is the claim amount doesn’t set the weight in a selling race. And conversely there’s an auction in a selling race.
Fog’s not as bad when you’re in it, but they’d have only had a hundred yard’s or so visibility – fine if there’s no accidents, but if something had gone wrong….
Not sure the racegoers are that relevant – no-one would have been refunded if they’d abandoned the last. Which they should have done, if the judge couldn’t see the result.
Welcome to the forum, I’m not a betting expert so someone better qualified will give a better answer soon. But:
C = Previous winner over this course (but at different distance)
D = Previous win over this distance (but at a different course)
CD = Previous win over this course and distance (at the same time)I guess the 1’s mean one such event. Assuming this is Elusive Ivy’s entry in tomorrow’s Punchestown race, really it’s just CD1. She’s won on previous event which was over the exact course and distance (9 Jan). The other two wins are irrelevant as both at different courses and distances.
Thanks Nenni, that’s interesting. According to the BRS site:
“To be eligible for this training [Category B] the rider must have had at least 15 completed rides under the Rules of Racing, the majority of which must be over obstacles or at least 20 completed rides in Point to Points and/or under the Rules of Racing. Generally, applications for Category B Permits are made by those who have already held a Category A Permit.”
Whereas a A permit only needs an assessment of their schooling ability.
Interesting that a much lower standard is permitted for the Cheltenham Foxhunter, I know Aintree is supposed to be “special” and all that, but it must be arguable that riding round Cheltenham in a full field the race after the Gold Cup is just as a serious a test of riding ability.
