[OneEye]

Fascinating stuff

Unfortunately, a horse race has never been won on paper (or on a spreadsheet as it is in this day and age) and never will.

The rail moved in three yards, moved out three yards, in two mile, out seven mile, what difference does it make? Speed ratings, RP ratings, official ratings, Billy Boy Blue’s ratings. They all have one thing in common. They are just opinion based.

[OneEye]

A drop in trip to the same distance, and on the same ground, it was beaten by 50l over on his first outing of the season?
Just how easy is it to pull the wool over racecourse stewarding, and is there any wonder that trainers do it with such gay abandon?

I absolutely agree Reet.

I read this post a few hours ago, but I’m still shaking my head in disbelief at 1) the reasons given for the Cumani horse’s improvement, and 2) that the stewards accepted it.

As I’m writing this message whilst currently watching the Tennis action at Wimbledon, I’ll say just one thing on the ‘excellent’ stewarding demonstrated in this case. You can not be serious!

[OneEye]

Some people have to put dinner on the table for their kids, if you can earn a little wage through horse ownership then fair play!

The only way – for about 98% of owners I’d say – to make money through horse ownership is to land gambles such as this one.

And this is the reason why so many horses are laid out to win races, and even more are laid out to lose races. I’ll say no more

[OneEye]

There is of course a very simple solution if jockeys don’t want to get suspended for big meetings. It’s called OneEye’s guide to race riding;

1. Don’t misjudge the winning line
2. Don’t ride a finish a circuit too early
3. Don’t whip a horse more times than you’re allowed
4. Don’t cause interference to other horses
5. Don’t drop your hands
6. Don’t deliberately get a horse beat
7. Don’t put on someone else’s ‘heavier’ riding boots

All very simple

[OneEye]

The difference is quite an easy one to distinguish.

The English stayers are horses that are brought through the handicap ranks, horses who mature and get better with age, horses that improve for the extra distance as they get older (Sergeant Cecil for example).

The Irish stayers are all horses that were supposed to win The Derby, The King Geroge, The Arc etc and were thought good enough to run in these races at three and four. They didn’t quite cut the mustard at that level so were stepped up in trip to see what they could achieve.

Basically what you have then is high class Irish horses with Group 1 form at 12 and 14 furlongs trying to out stay improving English handicappers. And as we witnessed at Royal Ascot last week, the class horse generally prevails.

Obviously people will have different views on it, but in the main, this is how I see it.

[OneEye]

And by the way, where did I say the horse was "slow"?

Ha ha, I like this Pinza.

You are the undisputed master at misquoting people and accusing people of something they neither said or insinuated, and here you are in the same shoes as many of the fellow forumites you reply to.

Love it

Enjoy your evening fella.

[OneEye]

Richard Hughes made a suggestion (not sure if it was on BBC or ATR that if a jockey gets done for overuse of the whip he should have the whip taken off him for a certain period of time. Sounds good to me.

Pretty pointless really. I mean, put some thought into it. You are an owner of a horse and you’re looking for a jockey. Shall I go for this jockey, the one that is banned from using the whip, or shall I use this jockey, the one who can use the whip?

All it will result in is the jockey that is banned from using the whip for x amount of time not getting any rides. So basically it will be the same as getting a ban from riding.

I can’t speak personally for a horse, but being whipped really doesn’t hurt them in my opinion. I can see both sides of the coin however. It doesn’t look good when Frankie goes ‘overboard’ with the use of the whip, but by the same token, without Frankie’s ‘overboard’ use of the whip, a horse – in this case Rewilding – would not have won a very prestigious race.

The only solution I can see is what Ian said very early in this thread. If whip rules are in place, then anyone who breaks them should have their mount disqualified. Owners will soon start saying to jockeys, "Don’t you dare get dq’d because of overuse of the whip", and the problem with in no time at all will be solved.

[OneEye]

Dr Johnson once wrote that if you’re tired of London, you’re tired of Life.

I’d extend that,

OneEye

, and suggest that if you’re tired of Royal Ascot, you’re tired of Racing.

A meeting which has featured

Canford Cliffs v. Goldikova

,

Frankel

, the pulsating

So You Think / Rewilding

battle,

Fame and Glory

‘s

Gold Cup

, plus a host of close finishes between good horses can hardly be described as

"boring"

, unless by

"boring"

you mean

"absorbing"

,

"rich"

and

"thrilling"

– which I don’t think you do.

And haven’t all those races already taken place? – and I wasn’t saying it HAS BEEN boring, I was suggesting that it gets more boring as the week goes on, day five, today, for example.

I’m tired of Royal Ascot (for this year), but I’m certainly not tired of racing. I can’t wait for Royal Windsor on Monday evening, it will be my first ever visit there.

Perhaps I was a bit harsh in my original post. What I really mean is that for me the excitement wears off come Saturday, and with two children approaching teenage age, I’d much rather go to the cinema with them, have lunch somewhere, go to an event or something.

But if I was just as excited about Royal Ascot today as I was on Tuesday, I’d tell the kids to get lost

That’s not the case though. I’m not expecting many of you to admit that it’s the same for you however.

[OneEye]

I don’t need to read it, I know exactly how bad it is, I know exactly how bad this country is for violence, drunken violence, crime, youth crime etc. I’ve already admitted in this thread that England is amongst the worst in the world, so I really don’t need evidence of it (thanks for the evidence though).

I’m merely pointing out that it happens in other countries too.

Anyone wanting to emigrate for warmer weather, great. Anyone wanting to emigrate for a change of lifestyle, great. Anyone wanting to emigrate because of drunken violence in England, all I am saying is that it happens in other countries also… it’s not just England.

So I think we are agreed then

[OneEye]

You don’t see drunkenness as a general rule on the streets of the Latin countries in particular. Teenagers are much more family oriented. They don’t drink beer or spirits to anything like the degree the Northern Europeans do, and they tend to take food with their wine.

Are you sure about that also Pinza? Notice you’ve gone down from ‘absolutely do not see this’ to ‘as a general rule’.

Earlier in this thread you said with confidence that,

"You absolutely do not see this kind of thing in the centre of Barcelona or Madrid (in both of which cities I happen to spend much time for professional reasons) after major sporting events."

Only for me to show you a clip of a riot – alcohol (as well as passion) influenced to boot – in the centre of Barcelona, after a major sporting event. And believe me, there’s plenty more clips if you care to have a look.

So if you were wrong this time, how many other times have you been wrong? I dread to think

[OneEye]

….. don’t twist my words.

ditto

Just seen your earlier reply Paul. Apologies if you feel I twisted your words. I hate it when someone twists my own, so many apologies.

[OneEye]

Pinza, come off it

It was after a Barcelona v Real Madrid game; over 500 arrests were made, an estimated 10,000 people were involved in that riot.

Are you saying none of them were drunk? You get funnier by the day mate, you really do.

Forget Majorca then for arguements sake, I’ll give you that one. What about Argentina, is most of the drunken fighting in that country done by English? What about Australia, Peru, Italy, USA, Germany, France, Poland, Chile, Sweden etc. You’ve probably gathered I’m just clutching countries from the top of my head.

Are all the drunken fights in these countries down to the English? Or are you going to admit that drunken violence is a problem in every country in the world where alcohol is available? Or are you just going to insist English are to blame?

And don’t twist my words as you usually do. I got involved in this thread in defence of English. We’re not perfrect far from it, and yes, were are perhaps amongst the worst. But all I am saying is if that anyone is thinking of emigrating to get away from drunken violence in this country, well… it happens everywhere in the world.

[OneEye]

You absolutely do not see this kind of thing in the centre of Barcelona

or Madrid (in both of which cities I happen to spend much time for professional reasons) after major sporting events. Nor do you get filthy littering or discarded cans of lager on public transport in either city.

Don’t you

Brilliant acting here then;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNJvleOI3pU

Or perhaps they were ALL English !!!

[OneEye]

1. You absolutely do not see this kind of thing in the centre of Barcelona or Madrid (in both of which cities I happen to spend much time for professional reasons) after major sporting events.

2. Most of the brawling in Spain is done by English tourists in the Balearic Islands and Costa Brava.

1. How do you know? Because you haven’t seen it!!! I’ve never seen a fight at a UK Racecourse but it happens

2. Is this fact? Not it damned well isn’t

You get violence in every country in the world, you get drunken violence everywhere in the world. Anyone who thinks otherwise is very naive.

There’s a little scrap at Royal Ascot and people start talking about how attractive emigrating is for crying out loud.

I’ve just seen a 14-year-old boy with a fag in his mouth. Jeez, I better move aborad, wouldn’t get that kind of stuff in any other country would we?

[OneEye]

…. just an extension of many High Streets on a Friday / Saturday night. Testosterone and drink fuelled moronic behaviour.

Just another factor to make emigration all the more attractive.

Because you don’t get testosterone and drink fuelled moronic behaviour in any other country than England do you?

It’s the same all over the world mate. We highlight it in England because we live in England. In Spain they won’t highlight this story, but they’ll highlight a drunken brawl in Barcelona’s city centre.

I get sick and tired of the debate that it doesn’t happen in other countries. Really?

You can get most national newspapers from other countries online in an English translation. I suggest everyone who is thinking of emigrating because of the ‘testosterone and drink fuelled moronic behaviour’ in England reads these newspapers for a month or so.

[OneEye]

As well as horses suffering from lack of confidenece, they can also suffer from depression.

A mate of mine used to have a horse that, every day, come rain or shine, would go out in the field and roll around like a couple of horny teenagers in a hay stack. Now the horse won’t leave his barn, and will only eat up if the food on offer is a packet of Jaffa Cakes, and Radio Two is on in the background.

[OneEye]

I’d say Haggas’ plea has largely fallen on deaf ears given that, despite a four-runner race to open the card, a total of 55 runners will be there today.

[Author]

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