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The Gold Cup has gone back the Irish sea for a mind boggling 6 years in a row.
The question is like Irish Sprinter, British Stayer are no existent at the Group level. The same donkeys like Duncan and Geordieland are useless. Where for the love of god is all Stoute’s late maturing horse’s from Ballymacoll stud bred on stiff stamina lines or even horses from The Darley operation with their abunance of Singspiel and Cape Cross??
Any idea’s?
I take your point but the comments re "useless" and "donkeys" are well wide of the mark about the 2 named horses. Duncan is rated 119, and Geordieland 117, and I have yet to see a donley achieve such a rating.
When actually winning they are fairly useless bunch??
Terribly disappointed that nothing has emerged in what i consider the most pleasing side of Flat racing, Stayers racing in the same races every year at the big meetings.
The difference is quite an easy one to distinguish.
The English stayers are horses that are brought through the handicap ranks, horses who mature and get better with age, horses that improve for the extra distance as they get older (Sergeant Cecil for example).
The Irish stayers are all horses that were supposed to win The Derby, The King Geroge, The Arc etc and were thought good enough to run in these races at three and four. They didn’t quite cut the mustard at that level so were stepped up in trip to see what they could achieve.
Basically what you have then is high class Irish horses with Group 1 form at 12 and 14 furlongs trying to out stay improving English handicappers. And as we witnessed at Royal Ascot last week, the class horse generally prevails.
Obviously people will have different views on it, but in the main, this is how I see it.
One-eye is right; the stayers is the lowest grade of flat racing, in the same way that 3-mile hurdling is the lowest grade of NH. The top grade is 10-12 furlongs, then milers, then sprinters. I’d suspect that Yeats and Fame and Gory would have been far too good for all the past winners as well. They are better horses who just happen to stay, and it suits Ballydoyle, with their huge choice, to cover the base of champion stayer.
The Irish stayers are all horses that were supposed to win The Derby, The King Geroge, The Arc etc and were thought good enough to run in these races at three and four. They didn’t quite cut the mustard at that level so were stepped up in trip to see what they could achieve.
Rite Of Passage would be the exception to that rule, no?
Historically, the Irish racing public have always swayed towards staying horses (probably a legacy of the preference for NH racing in the country and the fact that most of the top flat trainers came from a NH background). Sprinting as a discipline in this country just isn’t taken seriously and never really has been. Sprint races in the UK seem to be very popular whereas barely anyone over here has any interest in races less than a mile.
If its any interest Imperial Call I am English (of Irish extraction, that I am very proud of) and sprinting has little interest for me. At this moment it appears to be one good handicapper beating another, regularly overturning the form to win supposed group races.
I know that there is an ever increasing American led breeding emphasis on animals that are milers or less, but there is still a love in my mind for racing where tactics , skill etc , and sheer tenacity come to the fore.
That said I still think that there is room for all to be celebrated, but the sprinting division at the moment is poor in my view
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I know that there is an ever increasing American led breeding emphasis on animals that are milers or less, but there is still a love in my mind for racing where tactics , skill etc , and sheer tenacity come to the fore.
I wonder if American breeding is starting to lose that dominance to some extent?
With Coolmore seeing that money in Europe is easier to make over long distances, we are certainly seeing more top horses over here bred to stay 12 or 14 furlongs; and the likes of Yeats and Fame and Glory are bringing the Gold Cup back to something like the standards it had immediately post-war, when St. Leger winners (though not by then Derby winners) had the race in their 4yo sights.
All to the good in my opinion, also.
Thats a good point Pinza, I hope you are correct.
If that does indeed prove to be the case, then more power to the proverbial Coolmore elbow ( I never thought that I would be saying that !).
There is nothing better than seeing the likes of Yeats, Ardross etc plying their trade. Who knows Fame and Glory could go on to prove himself a truly great stayer in the same way
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