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That’s an interesting statistic Prufrock , although it would also be good to see where the winners were in relation to the leaders say 3f or 4f from home. That way we can see if they are coming from behind or sitting up with the pace.
At Cheltenham in March , Azertyuiop was travelling like a dream on the inside and was beginning to quicken through on the rails. Moscow Flyer was far from comfortable ( was not travelling particularly sweetly ) with Azerty’ moving up and fell soon after.
It is not beyond reason to think that the presence of Azertyuiop and the quickening of the pace contributed to Moscow Flyer’s fall. No-one is saying that that theory is definitive , but it is a possible explanation.
And that is the way Azertyuiop should be ridden – forcefully. He has pulled in a number of his races previously and that has to signal the need for a more positive ride. Especially when you’re racing a horse of the quality of Moscow Flyer. The one thing you don’t want to be doing is playing catch up as , no matter how good you are , you won’t catch him. Simple as that.
Now , Ruby had started to make his move before the home turn at Cheltenham and it proved to be the right way to go. So , why didn’t he do the same here ? On that count , the owner of Azerty has a basis for his comments.
Of course , hindsight is a wonderful thing and we can all pick apart races and find every little fault after they have been run. But , from previous runnings of the horse , a forceful ride had to be the call. Now , he could have been riding to orders and if that is the case , maybe the owner needs to direct his feelings towards Paul Nicholls , rather than criticise Ruby ( who is , in my opinion , still the best NH jockey around ).
When we approach any race , we have to look at the package – horse and jockey. The horse won’t do as well as he should , if the man on board isn’t doing him any favours. Whilst Walsh rode a fair race , I don’t think it was particularly brilliant and as much as Moscow Flyer may have been the best horse on the day , Geraghty was in the zone and made the difference in my opinion.
No-one has said that Moscow Flyer isn’t any good , because he is clearly one of the best chasers we have seen for a number of years and he is not losing his touch. However , I still believe Azertyuiop is the better horse and has more to show us. He is only seven years old after all.
That’s just my view – note the presence of the word view. An opinion and the sooner some people realise that , the better. There’s no value coming on here spouting ‘ Flyer is the best , Azerty fans quit it with your sour grapes and deal with it. ‘ If some people choose to think Azertyuiop is actually better , so what ? If they can back up their claims , then let it be. By all means state why you think they’re wrong , but neither side is necessarily correct or incorrect – at this stage.
Of course , this argument could then go on forever , as any victory gained by one horse over the other can prove distinctly conclusive.
Maybe the best horse on the day won , but the best horse didn’t win on the day. I still feel Geragthy was the deciding factor , although as I have said before ( maybe on a different hread ) , Azertyuiop’s jumping wasn’t brilliant over the final two or three flights.
Cheltenham could prove the real clincher either way and I’d hope to see Azertyuiop upsides Moscow Flyer , if not leading Moscow Flyer , at least three from home. I think most could agree that , providing both stand up , this would provide the ‘ ideal ‘ race.
All credit to Moscow Flyer and Barry Geraghty ( and connections of course ) , the race was fantastic to watch , but he won’t be carrying my money at Cheltenham.
The whole argument grows very tiresome after a while , but the report I’ve just seen on the news fecked me right off.
One of the hunt members , being interviewed on BBC , said :
" ….. If the hunts are outlawed , you see those two horses – they’ll be killed "
When asked why :
" ….. Do you know how much it costs to keep a horse ? "
So , in response to cruel culling of the fox population , the hunters are going to match it by killing all of their horses ??
I find it hard to believe many of them can’t afford to keep their horses – although it seems perfectly ameenable when they are allowed to hunt.
Keep your dummies in people.
There’s a statement on their website at the moment and it says you can still log in , right at the bottom of the page.
I’ve never dealt with them or even visited their site , so don’t know how well founded any rumours are.
I’m safe enough with Betfair and Betdaq.
No mention of Bob’s Buster , because it’s just been lifted from somewhere and no-one else is crazy enough to consider him a Champion Chase contender !!
But , who did write it Joe – they’ve certainly given it a good go ?
Did I read the initial posts correctly – biorhythms ? For predicting horse’s performances ? The same thing Phillips used to include on their C12 mobile to tell you when you’d be happy and when you’d get some ?!
I’m open minded , but this sounds barmy ! And before you say anything Alexander , it’s not a ‘ sado ‘ opinion – it’s an opinion pure and simple.
Biorhythm’s – brings a smile every time. But , in the interest of competition :
1.20 Doncaster
Foreign Affairs<br>La Sylphide
1.50 Doncaster
Glen Innes<br>Bowstring<br>Imperialistic
2.20 Doncaster
Quito<br>Goldeva<br>Ruby Rocket
4.00 Doncaster
Sendintank<br>Master Wells
Number of selections corresponds to places paid in each race.
Biohythms – :biggrin: – there , it still works.
Fancy taking £2000 from me at 5/1 then Joe ??
That ten-grand will really come in useful around March time.
I don’t know about nicknames nore , I never use them when talking about the horse , but they sure are a hell of a lot easier to type !!
Azertyuiop will not deviate from the Champion Chase route Nicholls has mapped out at present , so any dissention from the ‘ battle ‘ will come on the part of Moscow Flyer. Whether or not this will come down to Jessica Harrington fearing he can’t win , who knows. That sort of thing will become clear over the season , judging on what distance MF tackles pre-Cheltenham.
I would imagine that they’ll meet at least twice though , at Sandown and Cheltenham. I don’t doubt that Moscow will be as good and as quick as ever , but I think something very special has been found in Azertyuiop and he’ll be the one all the two-milers are gunning for.
Going on pure face value , it wasn’t Azertyuiop’s best performance on Tuesday – that would have to be his close second to Isio. But , considering the conditions , it was. I’d say that he was no more than 85% fit , pulled hard early ( due to lack of pace from Edredon Bleu ) , was giving weight away all round and is far from at his best on heavy ground. But he did finish with his ears pricked. For me , that makes it a pretty special effort. I’m sure Joe will correct me in his next insightful post ;)
I’m still waiting for your odds for the CC though Joe. I’ll have every TRF member as a witness to me putting £2k on Azerty now , with you – as you’re so confident :biggrin:
Just as an extra , a TRF member has penned a very interesting article on Moscow Flyer and Azertyuiop , from a breeding point of view , on my website. The site will be going up in dribs and drabs over the next couple of days , but it is well worth a read. The MF , Azerty piece will be up on Thursday afternoon.
A constructive contribution as always Joe.
This thread is , for once , well worth while and sensibly discusses the merits of Azertyuiop and also the merits of the horses likely to be pushing him this season.
If you don’t agree that Azertyuiop is the best chaser in training or even that he’ll win the Champion Chase , fair enough – give us something useful from your own thoughts. The fact that you’ve got Venn Ottery listed as the CC winner ( as a successor to Bob’s Buster ) doesn’t say too much , but , that’s your opinion.
Tell you what , offer me odds on Azertyuiop winning the CC ( if you’re that confident ) and I’ll back him now with you.
A big factor of Azertyuiop’s running is the need for a good , strong pace.
With Edredon Bleu in the race yesterday you would have thought that was assured , but Jimmy McCarthy rode a poor race on him in my view.
If there had been a good gallop , Azertyuiop would have settled better and that four length victory could have been considerably greater.
His jumping is fantastic and with a run under his belt , Moscow Flyer is going to have to run like a whippet with an arse full of dynamite to beat him.
Well Chied didn’t run over 2m at Cheltenham in 2003 , but whenever the results were recorded doesn’t matter. Recorded , official conditions were the same , thus fitting your argument. Well Chief was also carrying 5 lb less than Azertyuiop and Moscow Flyer ( although he was younger ).
But I don’t pay much attention to times in jumps racing , they are far less influential than on the flat.
Times mean very little in jumps racing , but if that’s a line for argument :
Edredon Bleu -Two miles – Cheltenham – Good – 3m 44.70
Maybe he’s the one they’ve all got to beat ?!
Well Chief is very good and put up an admirable display in last season’s Arkle , but I don’t think he’s a star ( that tag sits with Our Vic at the Pipe yard ) and he’ll struggle this year , in top class company at least.
Best Mate , Strong Flow and Iris’s Gift are all staying chasers and Fundamentalist looks like heading down the same road in time ( won over 2m 5f on his chasing debut ). They can’t strictly be compared to Azertyuiop given that he is limited to to 2m – 2m 2f at present , but if scaling their respective achievements and ratings , Azertyuiop would be some way clear in my book.
Off level weights , when the ground improves a little , something is going to have to put in an absolutely exceptional round to beat him. He is pure class.
I don’t think it’s premature at all.
As chaser’s go , he’s very special and his victory today has done nothing to convince me otherwise. He pulled early on and wasn’t fully fit by any means , but still won well from some good jumpers. The pace wasn’t strong enough really ( Jimmy McCarthy gave Edredon Blue a poor ride in that respect ) and he idled in front.
But , his ears were pricked after he crossed the line and he’ll improve a fair bit on that I would imagine.
