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Quote from the Sydney Morning Herald: ‘Brian Ellison who is preparing Moyenne Corniche and Saptapadi for the Melbourne Cup, wanted to watch the Black Caviar phenomenon for himself yesterday, and he wasn’t disappointed’. "We have heard all about her back home,dont worry about that," Ellison said."She is incredible"."Nothing will beat her,we certainly havn’t got anything back home that could go with her her"
I respect you as a poster more than most Reet but your way off the mark. So You Think shouldn’t even be fav and no way will he cope with Nathaniel.
It doesn’t take a genius to work it out even if your eyes can’t see which horse is the better.
Workforce is the form key.
He is clearly best at 12 furlongs and Nathaniel beat him at that distance easier than So You think did at his beloved 10f.
Nathaniel has bags of speed, travels well and he gets weight at a time of the year when it hurts most.
Nathaniel should be favourite and will win with something in hand IMO.
Spoken like a one eyed amatuer form student,go in to bookmaking with that outlook and you wont last a month
You forgot to mention that Workforce threw away a lot of ground by hanging to the outside fence and that Rewilding broke down making it so much easier for Nathaniel 
10f or 12f i dont think it matters,what you will see though is the improvement in So You Think with a quicker back up, the more you race him the better he goes. I think not racing enough over there has been his achilles.
No over hyping Black Caviar mate it’s just fact,and some of our ‘English Friends’ are already calling Frankel the best in the world and rated 142, some of them would know quite a bit about hype as well. Karuta Queen has won $1.6 million mate so no mayo there either,and she would probably lead most Kings Stand for a long way as she goes that quickly.So You Think mainly suffered from the haters not so much because of the hype,more so he wasn’t from the UK, or more direct he was from Australia. 12f is no problem to him either,in Australia mate the genuine group horses will switch from 10f to 12f without a mention,they rarely say here he is a 10f or 12f horse the trainer trains the horse to peak for which ever trip,it is no big deal.I would like the main Arc contenders to meet again,the result could be different, however at this stage Danedream has the wood on SYT at any distance.
The second horse Karuta Queen had won $1.6 million from 9 starts before today. That was just effortless,Sepoy is the only horse likely to get anywhere near her before she steps up in distance.Despite reports that Rocket Man was unlucky in Japan he had an uninterrupted run for over the last furlong and raced a bit flat,he is not in the same class as Black Caviar.
Cross over noseband, goes over the nasal area and strapped under the horses jaw for a horse that races with his mouth open and takes in a lot of air. The best tongue tie is a piece of stocking/pantyhose. You pull the horses tongue out tie the stocking around the tongue then tie under the jaw.You can also get tongue bits,which have a raised piece of steel or aluminium at the back of the bit to stop the horses tongue going over.
Yes beaten 4.3 lengths in HK was a typo on my account,whilst Glass Harmonium was the best of the 3 over there, i believe he has improved a bit here, though obviously not as much as My Kingdom Of Fife and December Draw. Timeform ratings here are an occasionlly used tool nothing more,none of this ‘he raced 8lbs below his best rubbish’ according to timeform! Obviously it can be a useful tool,people though tend to rely too heavily upon it,watching race replays will do you more good.Well Presto i suppose it is whoever is going around in the Australian Group 1’s if it is So You Think,Kingston Town and quite a few others i would rate the aussie group 1 as good as the english group1. After all though the ratings expert from timeform generally are close to the mark i am sure most would agree that at times in the past they appear to be off the mark.That said if a horse then goes out and runs so many lbs below his previous rating,that can make for a false rating.Also ask yourself this if Frankel had won all his races in the same fashion in Australia and Black Caviar Had won all her starts in England who do you think timeform would have on top?
The point is that Dream Ahead was rated higher than Danedream on the day,no need for all the comparisons. Who was the most devastaing on the day? Too easy, Danedream.Black Caviar has won 6 straight group 1’s and sits 7 points behind Frankel? If it had of been Frankel instead of Danedream winning in the same fashion i would be willing to suggest Frankel would have received probably higher than his current 142! As for SYT being rated higher than he should,he has won 8 Group 1’s in his last 14 starts in 3 different countries.
Yes Rob, they are one and the same.The first horse to sport them on an English track was Choisir, after his success they caused a bit of interest.I seem to remember shortly after an English mare was the first horse to wear them,she had not won for close on 2 years. She won at her first start in them then backed up and won her next start in them as well.
Choisir certianly wasn’t the first to wear them in England. The first time I remember seeing eyeshields was when I saw a Bill Holden filly called Bryone wearing them back in the 80s. They weren’t very common but I’m sure others would have worn them around that time, though they weren’t declared when used.
Rob
You didn’t see pacifiers there in the 80’s,Michael Pelling was still fine tuning them in 1989,maybe something that resembled them,but eyeshields you race there in today are Michael Pellings ‘Pacifiers’.They were not allowed to be worn in a race in Sydney till around 1990 or so.
That article explains things quite well,though there is one mistake in it as blinkers are more likely to fire a horse up rather than calm them and get them to settle.Trainers will often fit blinkers to inject a bit of speed into a horse or at times when they are coming back in distance.Basically to get the horse to race keener.
Its a shame that just because Danedream is not English or Irish trained that people have not given her the credit she deserves. Winning in such an emphatic fashion, her 3rd all aged group one on a variety of going, she has to be regarded as the best middle distance horse in Europe.
I couldn’t agree more.
I had to pour myself a second bowl of cornflakes this morning; the first one had been ruined by my tears of laughter after reading that Timeform rated Dream Ahead’s Forêt win as the best performance seen at Longchamo this weekend.
Yes but you listen to people on here and they tell you Timeform is not biased
Its a shame that just because Danedream is not English or Irish trained that people have not given her the credit she deserves. Winning in such an emphatic fashion, her 3rd all aged group one on a variety of going, she has to be regarded as the best middle distance horse in Europe.
Spot on! On that performance she would have to be the best middle distance horse in the world. Lets hope she gets the chance again to line up against some of the best, though the Arc may have suited on pacers better she didn’t just win she destroyed them.
You Call that adventurous Hurdygurdyman? Try Lee Freedman, Mahogany, Group 1 Wins From 1000m-2500m. Tommy Smith, Kingston Town, Group 2 win 1200m,Group 1 win 3200m. Doug Bougoure, Strawberry Road, Group 2(now Group 1) win at 1200m, Group 1 win at 2400m. Bart Cummings, Saintly, Group 2 win at 1200m, Group 1 win at 3200m, the list goes on. Thats what you call adventurous!!!
Presto
Quote by AOB in Sunday’s RP:
"He has never run over this trip for us, but we are
hoping
it won’t be a problem".
His jockey expressed similar reservations in a BBC interview on the day of the race.Also, dress the form up how you like, his Arc run was rated SYT’s worst performance of the season.
Firstly, to me that quote looks like something they often say when a horse steps up in trip. It reflects slight trepidation rather than absolute certainty but certainly doesn’t suggest they’d go back to get the trip. And of course if they went forward they would’ve been posted 4 or 5 wide. It also acknowledges that he did run over longer distances down under, just not "for them".
How am I "dressing up" the form? If you think SYT "just wasn’t good enough" and had "every chance" despite finishing best of all bar the winner (better than Snow Fairy) w/o taking into account the track, you must think that Shareta turned in a better 12f performance than SYT, Snow Fairy, St Nicholas Abbey, Meandre, and Sarafina. They had every chance too. You can’t have it both ways.Glass Harmonium didn’t improve much if at all, form with Redwood matches up to what he’s done in AUS. There’s no doubt that AUS has weaker middle distance horses, and I’m a lot closer to Australian racing than European. So You Think was dominant, the best in decades down under. Nothing could get near him. But landing in a decent European middle-distance year he found 3 horses around his level at 10f (Workforce, Rewilding, Snow Fairy) and one surely above (Danedream).
SYT the best in decades? Plenty would disagree Presto and Glass Harmonium has raced and been placed in group races every run here, he has improved markedly,there has been plenty of English imports fail here so it always comes back to the ‘lower class’ of racing when a horse is improved here.At his last start in HK Glass Harmonium was beaten about 30 lengths,so lets not forget how consistent he has been here,instead of cherry picking one run in a group 3 beating Redwood.
Jollyp
Horses in the UK are sometimes equipped with what you would call ‘pacifiers’ but they are known here as ‘eyeshields’ and declared as such.
I’ve also seen an ‘eyecover’ which compeletely cover one eye and I would guess are used if a horse has limited vision in one eye and/or the eye is very sensitive.
Rob
Yes Rob, they are one and the same.The first horse to sport them on an English track was Choisir, after his success they caused a bit of interest.I seem to remember shortly after an English mare was the first horse to wear them,she had not won for close on 2 years. She won at her first start in them then backed up and won her next start in them as well.
As far as December Draw and Glass Harmonium go:
December Draw improved throughout the 2010 season, winning two handicaps and just a length third in a listed race for William Knight. Mr Knight isn’t thought to be one of our best trainers and not surprising December Draw has maintained that improvement for his Australian connections this term. For which they obviously deserve credit. It’s interesting December Draw has an Australian bred dams sire Danzero.
Glass Harmonium went in to the 2010 season as an unexposed four year old, capable of improving in to a Group 1 animal. So much so I put him in a ten to follow competition. Started off well by beating subsequent Group 1 winner Redwood in the Group 3 Gordon Richards. Only third in his next race (the Brigadier Gerard) when held up off a slow pace. Started 13/8 fav but beaten by Stotsfold who has a turn of foot and the front running Tazeez. Hampered on the turn when only 6th at Royal Ascot in the Group 1 Prince Of Wales. Not that he is good enough to win a race like that. Couldn’t recapture early season form after a small injury kept him off until October. Again 6th in the Group 1 Champion and well down the field in Hong Kong only other run.
For all the bluster about Glass Harmonium improving for his Australian connections, he’s still to win a Group 1. However, potential shown for Sir Michael Stoute early in his career could yet be proven in Australia. Sir Michael is known as one who gives horses time to recover and hope his Australian colleagues give him credit for doing so, if a Group 1 race comes Glass Harmoniums way.
I do appreciate that Glass Harmonium was going around in good races there and not performing badly Ginger Tipster.He was very unlucky not to win the Group 1 Doomben Cup, his record here is 7 starts 1 win 4 seconds 1 3rd and 1 4th.The 2 that have really shone are My Kingdom Of Fife and December Draw between the two they have had 12 starts for 9 wins and 3 seconds the 3 seconds being very narrow defeats and both are Group 1 winners. It can be noted that these 2 horses have basically raced 2 weeks apart, i think that is a key to consistency not to mention the very good job that Chris Waller and Mark Kavanagh have done with them. I believe So You Think thrived on racing and would have been better suited to a couple of quicker back ups over there as he is quite a gross horse as well.
You forgot to mention that Workforce threw away a lot of ground by hanging to the outside fence and that Rewilding broke down making it so much easier for Nathaniel 