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2.00. Sweet Wake<br>2.35. Don’t Be Shy<br>3.15. Hardy Eustace<br>4.00. Moulin Riche<br>4.40. Good Step<br>5.20. Rosecliff
As an annual member I have to vote for Glorious Goodwood, although not just for that reason.<br>Whilst I love watching the Cheltenham Festival on the telly I could not stand going as the crowds would make it unbearable for me, drunks, pushing and shoving and not being able to watch the racing are not my idea of fun.<br>Similarly Royal Ascot. Ignorant of racing drunks and women posing for the cameras also do not appeal.
I like to enjoy my racing in relative comfort and with like minded knowledgable people and Goodwood membership gives me that.
One other meeting that I also love is the Hennesy weekend at Newbury.
John.
I was at Goodwood yesterday and looking at the horses in the paddock before the race I immediately discounted Persian Punch as he looked like old piece of dog meat showing every year of his age.
How wrong was I!!
I had been very successful in previous races by looking at the horses in the padock and discounting the sweating up favorites and backing the fittest and calmest looking, but the only thing that could be said about Pershan Punch was that he was not sweating up, in fact he was so laid back that I doubted that he would have the energy to get down to the start!!
The response and acclaim from the crowd at Goodwood after his very brave win was wonderfull and the ‘lap of honour’ that Martin Dwyer gave him in front of the stands was an extraordinary sight and brought a tear to the eye of many hardened race goer.
Like Jason I was also on Jardines Lookout but the blow was softened by the wonderfull bravery and reception given to Persian Punch.
John.
Whoops!!
Back to the drawing board.
Give it one more go:-
4.25. Worc.  Bacardi Boy<br>4.50. Donc.  Blue Spinnaker<br>Be Lucky
John.
p.s. The reason yesterdays didn’t get placed was because I didn’t hi-lite them in red. Me and my superstitions!!
p.p.s. Last post from me for a while as I go into hospital tomorrow for a total Knee replacement. Already had the other one replaced as well as a hip so I know whats coming!!
I hope the administrators of the Forum do not mind (this thread should probably be in Tips or Systems) but just to keep things rolling I will invest yesterdays winnings on the following.
1.40. Epsom  Lady Bear<br>7.50. Perth   Big Wheel
£15 e.w.double
ps. Just placed the bet with sportingodds. LB @13/2, BW @ SP.
Wish me luck.
(Edited by johncockerill at 9:44 am on June 6, 2003)
Well, what do you know!!
Tentsmuir 2nd @ 12/1<br>Nat Gold 1st @ 8/1 ( I took an early price)
Overall profit £34.20.
Is this worth an entry in the systems section of the Forum ??
John.
Just for a bit of fun I briefly studied todays paper and chose two races that only had 8 or 9 runners and had a short priced favorite.
4.55 Perth<br>6.40 Uttoxeter
I chose the 3rd favorite, which was someway clear in the betting of the 4th, favorite and did a small £5 e.w. double.
Betting online, whilst stakes may be somewhat restricted, I do not think that bookies will refuse this type of bet.
Fingers crossed for Tentsmuir. 4.55 Perth. Nat Gold 6.40 Uttoxeter.<br>John.<br>
My Cheltenham Highs & Lows were:-
Highs:-  Watching Back In Front, Azertyuiop, Rooster Booster & Best Mate win.
Backing Rooster Booster @ 6/1, Royal Predica @ 40/1,<br>Young Spartacus @ 33/1 & Baracouda @ 9/4.
In the William Hill fantasy Cheltenham league I picked 5 winners out of 7 & had R.Johnson as one of my jockeys.
Having 3 winners out of 4 in an anti-post Lucky 15.
Lows:- Not backing Back In Front, Azertyuiop & Best Mate.
Having a rule 4 applied to Young Spartacus (cost me £74-25).
Only coming 87th in the william Hill Cheltenham Fantasy league.
Taking early prices in my anti-post Lucky 15. 5/2 s.p.3/1,  15/8 s.p.9/4.
The unfortunate deaths of two wonderfull horses.
John.
I realise that Legend. That is not the point of my thread.
What I am asking is what can be done to overcome the ‘can’t win can’t lose’ rule.
John.
Sorry legend, I missunderstood your reply, I see what you mean.
O.K. Why not declare dividends below 10p?
John.
(Edited by johncockerill at 12:16 pm on Dec. 16, 2002)
I must say how highly I regard Allan Potts for his contributions on this Forum and long may he appear on ATR for it makes a change for some common sense to be heard.
Like DJ I try to earn a bob or to at this game, but in a much smaller way.
I go to the races quite often but treat the day out as just that, a good day out, as I cannot help but bet in every race. Consequently I do not bet very heavily, £20-£30 per race, and also do not come away winning very often either.:(
If I stay at home and chose my races and stick to my own rules then I can make this game pay, but I have not got, or wish to have, the strength to go to the races and only bet in a couple of races, the costs and expenses of a day at the races far outstrip any advantages to be gained in the betting ring.
Be Lucky
John.
I am finding this thread very interesting as now we are more or less singing from the same hymn sheet.
Goodwood, the best racecourse in the world, has a straight that leans away from the stands rail and so IMO a high draw in the 5 & 6 F. races should be an advantage, & yet the papers say low number advantage.<br>In every race the runners race the first 3-4 f up the rails and then creep over to the far rail at the finish.
Why?<br>It must be the herd instinct, the Jockeys think low numbers are best because generally rails draws are considered to be so, but in a large field of runners when, in a sprint, they have to more or less keep to their draw position then high numbers have an advantage if they have enough runners with them to race against.
I would be interested in comments from Manny, Manugirl, JTS, Racing Daily & JohnnyB as to whether they take the draw terribly seriously when making their selections, plus, of course, other members who have views on this subject.
I am more convinced than ever now that the weight carried is only a relatively small inconvenience given that the horse in question is fit and ready to win.
Be Lucky
John.
Another thought.
At Southall all weather, again a low draw (against the rails) is said to be favoured. However with the tight bends if a horse does not lead from the start and get a good early pace on then one of two things may happen.
1) The horse will get squeezed on the rails by other tight turning horses on the bends and be forced into the rails.
2) Be overtaken and boxed in and not get a run.
I have seen both of these thing happen at Southall and will never bet on either a low or high drawn horse, (high because the horse has to run too wide).
IMO only back horses with a middle draw at Southall and similar tight turning tracks.
John.
Thanks for all your replies and I do think that Ian has got the wrong end of the stick.
My point is, as Prince Regent correctly points out, that according to the papers low numbers are best at Lingfield and the results patently show that to be incorrect.
P.R. makes my point precisely.
The other P.R. (the Rocket variety) also hits the nail on the head, which if I read her correctly, agrees with me that the pace of the race, particularly at the begining can overcome a bad draw or indeed bugger up a so called good draw.
As for the weight, all things being equal, which they never are, then a pound or two would make a difference, perhaps, but I think that the horses well being together with the jockey and the latest trainer form will overcome at least 3-4 pounds weight difference.
Interesting to read your thoughts.
John.
Generally I agree with the majority of views added to this thread, but I am surprised that no one has mentioned the British Horseracing Board who surely should be a given a more important role in the running and control of this great sport of ours.
I think the jockey club do the best they can. In a world where money rules it is impossible to eradicate curruption and I do not condemn the J.C. because they have some aristocratic toffs in their ranks, a well educated and informed person can make a valuable contribution regardless of background or class.
I am sure the B.H.B. can and, given the opportunity, would help in the endevours to clean up our sport.
John.
I have just come across this topic and I must say that Larry has got it just about spot on.
Personally I have  (or rather had) a £5,000 bank.<br>Initially I bet to win about £1000 per race, therefore betting between £50 and £250 per race.
I rate the bets on a 1-5 points basis depending on the price. Therefore a 10/1 shot would be worth 1 point, or a bet of £50. A 4/1 shot or less would be worth 5 points and a bet of £250.
As the bank of £5,000 goes up or, as in my case, down by 10% then I either increase or decrease my bets accordingly. The points value, 1-5 remains the same.
After a particularly poor run my bank has reduced to £2000 (and I am sleeping in the spare room) and so my bets are now between £20 – £100 per point and I aim to win £200 per bet.
Betting this way my bank should last, if not forever, then for a long time.
I hope this is not too confusing, but the bottom line is.
1) you must have a bank that will not create too much hardship if lost.
2) you must never chase losses by increasing your stake when losing.
3) Be patient and wait for the right betting opportunity, which means perhaps giong for days without betting.
4) Have an understanding wife, husband or partner who will not nag you when on a losing spell. (I was joking about sleeping in the spare room).
Be lucky ( and patient, calm and collected).
John.
IMHO no, it is not possible to make a living from gambling unless you are a bookmaker, trainer or jockey and in very rare cases as an owner.
Every racing pundit on the T.V. or in the papers gives a different opinion on each horse race and subsequently a different selection.
It is not a exact science. There is no formula or system that takes into account the various factors involved in finding the winners. There are exceptions, when the trainer, owner or jockey is not trying to win and others are in the know, but I do not believe there are enough of these for the ordinary man to make a reasonable living.<br>I am afraid that there is no substitute for hard work and a decent education to make a decent living in this day and age.
If any members disagree and maintain that they can  and do make a living from gambling on the horses, then let them prove it and show their selections on this Forum and, at the end of each month give their profit & loss account.
D.J. is the only member to do this and I can verify his figures so far as Timeline is concerned and as you can see he is struggling and he is gambling many hundreds of pounds on each selection. Only for the very brave and for those with a very large bank!
All the comments made by Tony, Nick, APR and RD are absolutely correct except, I suspect, for the statement that ‘several on this Forum already do make a good living’. Those that lay bets on the exchanges may do better than backers, but enough to make a good living? I doubt it, unless you lay virtually every horse in the race and then you are being a bookmaker.
Be Lucky and dont give up the day job.
John.
