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Panorma Thoughts?

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  • #4224
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    I think this deservers a new thread. What do you reckon?

    My gut reaction; A very scatter gun approach. Lots of cases mentioned, very little focus or investigation on any of them.

    Does anyone know why Roger Buffham was sacked? What was his gross misconduct? Don’t answer that – it will be libellous – but is the reason in the public domain?

    That secret recording of Jeremy Phipps was absolutley disgraceful. It didn’t add any substantial weight to the thrust of their argument; you can secretly record anyone and get yourself a bunch of juicy and incriminating quotes. I really hated that segment.

    (Edited by RichK at 11:34 pm on Oct. 6, 2002)

    #100455
    michael
    Member
    • Total Posts 31

    Having just watched the programme I think I have just wasted 1 hour of my time.

    #100458
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    They could have made a deep and shocking programme on the Brian Wright/Triads links into racing; now that would have been worth the air time. Instead the frightening stuff was interspersed with trivia. No lose accounts indeed? Who gives a monkeys?

    I thoroughly enjoyed the doorstepping of John Brown. The same John Brown who was lecturing us on the legality of exchanges just a few weeks ago. Although I enjoyed it, still unfair – and hardly a very serious allegation to level at him. He and his board decided to hold back betting information to Buffham’s investigation into Man Mood.

    The programme tried to throw a lot of sh*t. Wonder how much will stick?

    #100459
    Jim JTS
    Member
    • Total Posts 841

    We all know the game is bent in areas and I found this programme very interesting but what I really hate is when most racegoers sit back and take all this corruption on the chin, wouldn’t it be great if the Jockey club actually did their job in the correct manor, I love this great sport but I am a bit embarrassed with all the lies that go around, in MY perfect racing world I’d love to see cheating got rid of once and for all but I’m afraid it will never go away… this is my opinion and I realise I may be in a minority!

    #100460
    Venusian
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1665

    Not as sensational as I was led to expect, but a most watchable programme, for the ousider and racing buff alike.

    1) It told me nothing that I didn’t know about the Jockey Club, Graham Bradley, or Dermot Browne.

    2) Clearly the guy currently in charge of security has to go, he seems no more competent than his predecessor. It was curious that no mention ws made of the reasons why Buffham had to leave his job so suddenly.

    3) I felt the insinuations against Kieren Fallon were feeble – in keeping with the spirit of the programme surely they should be asking why the Hong Kong Jockey Club had not made more effort to warn off the supposed Triads from the sport out there, rather than criticise a jockey who has to ride for, and therefore associate with, whatever owners happen to patronise the stable he rides for.

    4) The suggestion that ‘a whole generation’ of jockeys were corrupted was ludicrous, not to say libellous. I’d imagine that people like messrs Scudamore, Dunwoody and Maguire might be a little miffed, to put it mildly. I wonder if m’learned counsel might be in for a bit of a windfall here? Ardross, start booking those world cruises now!

    5) There is a clear requirement for bookmakers to be forced to disclose details of betting accounts where appropriate. The criticisms of Chandler and Hills were well merited. <br>

    #100462
    pogues
    Member
    • Total Posts 8

    personally i think buffham was right to do what he did, he was employed to be chief of security and was only doing his job, and got the sack for it,

    #100463
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    Jim, you’ve hit the thrust of the programme on the head – but what the hell can the Jockey Club do anyway? The police in this country don’t have the teeth to investigate anything other than the most major or the most trivial crimes – what chance does the governing body of a sport have?

    Didn’t they attempt to do something about it, under the direction of Buffham, when they arrested Bradley et al – and where did that lead? Collapsed cases.

    Similarly with Brian Wright. The police can’t touch him – why should we lampoon the Jockey Club for failing to do anything about it?

    Another undercurrent in the programme was "oooh look at the Jockey Club – a load of unelected upper class toffs!". So an elected body of people from all classes would solve the problems highlighted? I very much doubt it.<br>

    #100465
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    Venusian , good points.

    1,3,5) Yep.

    2) I disagree with this, strongly. Any of us reading this forum could be secretly recorded, and once the recording is editing down to a couple of minutes, I guarantee you could be caught saying some salacious or criminal things. He looked a total prat, but as I say, the editing helped alot. The programme said nothing of substance about him either way.

    I’m desperate to know why Buffham went too. Wasn’t it a clause in the settlement between him and the JC – the JC weren’t allowed to disclose the reaosn? Surely all bets are off now?

    4) The point buffham was making was that all NH jockeys have enjoyed, in some way some of Wright’s hospitality (eg golf tournaments). I bet that’s 100% accurate. That doesn’t make them bent of course, but that’s why they can’t sue.

    <br>(Edited by RichK at 11:57 pm on Oct. 6, 2002)<br>

    (Edited by RichK at 11:58 pm on Oct. 6, 2002)

    #100466
    pogues
    Member
    • Total Posts 8

    we should have more people like buffham and try and bring some sanity to the sport, its riddled with corruption and someone was trying to do some thing about and got the sack for it, i know the sport will never be clean, but the jockey club have to something about it now

    #100467
    Jim JTS
    Member
    • Total Posts 841

    Rich, I agree that it may be difficult to really do anything but isn’t it better to at least make an attempt at it and let all concerned know that they are being scrutinised? the jockey club appear to be sitting back and letting things happen, they can’t even answer straight forward questions when asked, if no-one has anything to hide then lets get some straight talking done!

    Punters in general are gullible and I realise that many may let things be but the truth hurts and the truth is that the game is being ruined by conmen, a shame, but a sad fact, the doping of horses annoyed me though as this is abuse of a fantastic animal and it’s NOT right!

    maybe I’m going over the score here but I’ve been very interested in racing for many years and it hurts when bad publicity like this is plastered all over the place even though I know it goes on! :( <br>

    #100468
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    But isn’t that what happened a few years ago when Bradley, Gallagher, Brookes etc were arrested in very public raids? But at the end of it all, nothing could be done because at the heart of all of this are some very serious criminals (not the aforementioned racing people). If we really are talking about triads – and we’re certainly talking about a very dangerous man in Brian Wright, then we are trasnscending racing.

    These people need to be put away for the good of humanity, and that they might have rigged races or shoved their hands up a few bent jockey’s arses is a secondary (important to us, but secondary) concern. But if international police can’t control them, then I’m not going barrack the ruling body of a little sport for not doing so either.<br>

    (Edited by RichK at 12:12 am on Oct. 7, 2002)

    #100469
    RichK
    Participant
    • Total Posts 201

    Jim,

    On your point about doping – the programme did go on to say that doping has largely been eradicated in the sport. Not sure that’s true, but you have to admit it would certainly be easier to put up a jockey who is happy to take a pull than trying to administer the right dosage etc.

    Not ONE of the claims put forward by the witnesses were cross examined. That’s an important point. For example, when Buffham said "a whole generation of NH jockeys are implicated in organised crime", the questioner should have said "how do you know this? what proof do you have". But it was all accepted as fact. Whereas the people on the other side were doorstepped and made to look foolish on the spot.

    Some of them deserved it. Bradley in particular look a complete prat in his "interview". And don’t forget the bum hole licking Carson crawling in the background.

    #100470
    elderberry
    Member
    • Total Posts 22

    Didn’t see the programme (no bbc) but re Buffham’s departure the following was in today’s Sunday Times:<br>"Panorama fail to point out that Buffham’s departure from the security post last year followed allegations against him of sexual harassment."

    #100471
    Jim JTS
    Member
    • Total Posts 841

    yep, Rich, the Carson incident raged me, I was a fan of Willie Carson too but his little voice crawling to Bradley saying something like "sorry I couldn’t protect you there" that was very embarrassing.

    It seems like everyman and his dog that’s involved in racing has much to hide, are there ANY straight people in the game anymore?

    #100472
    Seagull
    Member
    • Total Posts 1708

    Horseracing in this country is an estimated 6 BILLION pound business.<br> I find it AMAZING that the chairman thought his holiday abroad should not be cut short and he thought it best to keep out of the country whilst this was all kicking off.

    Phipps must also consider his position he only managed to come up with an excuse for his comments after he was rescued by his P.R. director John Maxse.<br>The way the B.B.C. collected the information may have been suspect but no more suspect than all the speed cameras and CCTV one sees in every high street in this day and age. Willie Carson and Graham Bradley come out of the programme with no credit whatsoever (nothing new there then). <br>I thought overall the Panorama team did a good job and if changes are made for the better such as the B.H.B. taking more control that should help us all overall.<br>All Jamie Osbourne and Dave Wintle have to do when they appear before the Jockey Club is to claim they were acting in exactly the same way as the head of Jockey Club security did.

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