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Progress? Heresy? Is nothing sacred any more? Or does racing have to move with the times?
Insomniac, that’s a very interesting and thought-provoking post.
Let us assume that racehorses are genetically pretty much the same as they were a century ago. Let us also assume that any development in their performance has been brought about by advances in feed, training methods, medication, etc. If the true champions elevate themselves by being far superior to their contemporaries, then surely the champions of today are better than those of the past?
…but the "arbitrary number" I can see is 1 lb per length. Is that always what you work to whatever the going/distance?
Aye, I’ve always used one pound per length over the jumps, irrespective of ground and trip. It is the measure which I was taught by a professional punter in the early 1980s and has stood the test of time. I sometimes get the impression that, these days, there is a trend to overcomplicate relatively simple things in an attempt to make quite ordinary people appear clever.
How did you come to the 185 rating Gladiateur?
It was a very difficult race to assess accurately, as neither Wishfull Thinking nor Sanctuaire is the most consistent of animals and Tataniano (beaten 46 lengths and 40 lengths in handicaps in his previous two starts) is currently nowhere near worth his lofty official rating of 160.
I rated the race through Sizing Europe, who ran a few pounds below his best of 169 on my ratings (which I’ve had for the top horses, both flat and jumps, for over thirty years) and has been assigned a mark of 166, due to his slip on the home turn. That leaves Wishfull Thinking running to 160, a mark of which he’s capable when in the mood, and Sanctuaire to a very plausible 157- it’s interesting to see that the last-named ran almost exactly to the pound with Sprinter Sacre on their Victor Chandler Chase form.
I notice that in your second post you observe that Timeform have Wishfull Thinking running to a mark of 159, one pound short of my rating for his effort last Wednesday. Maybe I’m getting old and my brain isn’t what it used to be, but 159+25 doesn’t equal 192 unless my maths is seriously wrong. The "p" ought to signify that there was more in the winner’s tank, rather than some arbitrary number added in to the winning margin.
In summary before the sale the horse had a favourite’s chance of winning the Champion Hurdle and now he hasn’t got any.
Because the colours on the jockey’s back will be different?
I hope Ginger doesn’t see this
Funny; I had him in mind when I posted the thread.
I fear that some people are missing the general point of this thread and focusing too much on the specific case of Sprinter Sacre. Even though I think that his rating isn’t quite justified, although I have him running to 185 on my ratings, this thread is more about the creeping upwards of Timeform ratings over the last ten to fifteen years, culminating in the state we have now where Harbinger, Sea The Stars and Frankel have all been rated 140 or higher in recent years and numerous jumpers have reached 168 or more, which was previously hallowed ground.
Sizing Europe isn’t the horse who drags down the rating. Is Wishfull Thinking really a 167 horse?
Following hot in the hoofsteps of Frankel’s being rated the best flat horse in the experience of the boys from Halifax, we are now informed that Sprinter Sacre is the best steeplechaser since Arkle and Flyingbolt. Yep: beating Wishfull Thinking by 25l apparently elevates Sprinter Sacre above Mill House, Desert Orchid, Carvill’s Hill, Kauto Star and all the rest.
Whilst there is no doubt that the sky remains the limit for the Moulds’ tremendous ‘chaser, is trouncing a has-been and lots of never-will-bes really deserving of such a lofty rating? And, more to the point, are Timeform now just elevating ratings for publicity purposes?
I own every edition of <i>Chasers & Hurdlers</i> and every <i>Racehorses</i> annual going back to 1970 and I’ve noticed what I consider to be headline generating ratings creeping in over the last decade or so. I’ll continue to buy Timeform’s annuals as a historical reference but can’t help but feel that their ratings have to be taken with a pinch of salt from now on.
Am I alone in this or does anybody else agree?
Typical of both the owner and the company, I’m afraid. There are no depths to which either would refuse to sink for a bit of publicity.
As you say, it’s the same everywhere now. How many times have you heard a football commentator shriek "Great effort!"as the ball goes flying into row Z?
The media exists to build excitement and to hype things up.
1:30 Rival d’Estruval (Back In Focus)
2:05 Chatterbox (Two Rockers)
2:40 Unioniste (Houblon des Obeaux)
3:20 Mail de Bievre (Somersby)
4:00 Barbatos (Ericht)
4:40 Saphir du Rheu (Caid du Berlais)
5:15 Le Vent d’Antan *NAP* (Milo Man)1:30 Un Atout (reserve My Tent Or Yours)
2:05 Simonsig (Overturn)
2:40 Knockara Beau (Loch Ba)
3:20 Zarkandar *NAP* (Rock On Ruby)
4:00 Arabella Boy (Shakervilz)
4:40 Quevega (Une Artiste)
5:15 Shangani (Ackertac)Just don’t buy it. You can access cards and form for free on the Internet; the Post’s articles aren’t that great and any serious punter does their own homework, instead of relying on tips in a rag.
Who needs the Racing Post?
… but not something I personally think goes with NH racing!
Sadly, racing (like most things) is about financial profit and nothing else these days. The racecourses would rather have a coach-load of boys out on the lash, and the guaranteed income at the bars, than have a thousand teetotal racing aficionados.
My ideal would be more cameras in the parade ring with paddock watchers (Ken Pitterson or David Cleary for example) providing the comments.
Agree that there should be far more coverage of horses in the paddock (as well as on their way to post) than is currently on offer.
On a separate note, Ken Pitterson is one of the best paddock judges out there. It’s a pity that his career has been blighted by too much melanin.
He is on the ATR Sunday Forum tomorrow. Don’t watch every week but haven’t seen him on that before.
Pity; I usually have waffles for breakfast whilst watching the Sunday Forum but to do so this week would be overkill.
