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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Great to hear from you Joni! Bet you enjoyed today (though pity Nashwa was napped).
“Well-bred greatest racehorse of all time turns out to be a roaring success at stud – who’d have thought it?”
– doesn’t always work out that way though does it? You only have to look for the name of Brigadier Gerard or Pappa Fourway in pedigrees of current horses in training.
True enough, but they weren’t from that Northern Dancer-Sadler’s Wells-Galileo bloodline (with Northern Dancer-Danzig-Danehill on the other side!).
Don’t get me wrong, I’m as big a fan of Frankel as anyone but his success at stud is hardly a shock: he was beautifully bred, the best racehorse I ever saw and he consequently gets the best mares.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I did thanks Tonge. Hope you are well!
Yes – no shock to most that he is so successful. Certainly not to me. But there were plenty of doubters on here. Doubts about temperament and there was a lot of early talk about him not stamping his stock. As we know, in breeding success begets success. If those early crops had failed he wouldn’t be getting the books he’s getting now. Anyway, he’s established now and it will be interesting to see how close he gets to emulating his dad and grandad..
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Quite so Joni. Given the errors in the first crops (assumption that he would be an influence for speed, rather than stamina etc) he’s done well to already reach the heights he has. That is certainly partly due to his reputation. Any other stallion siring similar progeny would probably have been marketed as a NH stallion after his first season.
“he consequently gets the best mares” – some of them. So many of the best are also from the Galileo line so denied to Frankel.
I wasn’t around at the genesis of this thread.
I can understand the doubts – I didn’t think Frankel had temperament, but Noble Mission did.
I think Frankel is a sire for thr here and now – he was not only better than Galileo as a racehorse he was faster and more precocious.
No back end juvenile maiden then Derby/Irish Derby/King George treble at three for him – he won a Dewhurst at two, the Guineas by the length of Newmarket High Street at three and over 1m2f at four.
Better, faster, more precocious, yet durable too.
Put to the right mare, Frankel can sire a horse to win at pretty much any trip that really matters commercially in the modern-day world.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Now has to complete the final step and succeed as a first rate sire of sires. Incredible to think that both Nijinsky and Mill Reef, fantastic sires as well as racehorses, now have almost extinct male lines.
Talking of Brigadier Gerard – back in the 1970s they obviously felt a need to have the horse prove himself at 1m4f – he ran in a King George, which he made heavy weather of winning.
Fast forward to the modern era and the connections of Frankel and Baaeed felt no such need.
Those in denial about 1m4f no longer being the premier Flat race distance take note.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Fast forward to the modern era and the connections of Frankel and Baaeed felt no such need.”
Two very different situations. Connections of Frankel ran scared of the Derby, as they didn’t want to risk losing his unbeaten record, hence the completely new tactics employed in the Guineas. It wasn’t a commercial decision to not attempt a mile and a half, as it would devalue the horse, but a reputational one.
As for Baaeed, pretty much the same applies. They would rather not lose the horse’s unbeaten record over a mile and a half in the mud. Better to retire unbeaten than with one defeat on the record.
The way I see it, if 1m4f was still the most sought after winning race distance commercially for breeding, Frankel and Baaeed would have attempted 1m4f.
But Frankel – who I recall being 1/2 with a run for the Arc briefly before the idea was dismissed – was able to swerve the distance and still start at a covering fee of £125,000.
I love the race pattern, but it’s an increasingly ill fit with modern commercial breeding reality.
The Derby winner has to revert to 1m2f to optimise his stud value and the King George and Arc play second fiddle to the International Stakes and other 1m2f Group 1s nowadays.
I don’t much like it – I got into racing in an era where a good Derby winner always went for the Irish Derby then King George, but it’s a manifest fact that this is the case nowadays.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“The way I see it, if 1m4f was still the most sought after winning race distance commercially for breeding, Frankel and Baaeed would have attempted 1m4f.”
Retiring unbeaten is the most important thing these days.
You could be right, Gladders, but in 1982 Golden Fleece retired unbeaten after winning The Derby.
1m4f was still where it’s at then, so it didn’t matter.
But I reckon today if a Derby winner retired unbeaten, having never won a Group 1 at 1m or 1m2f, he’d be worth less than one who had.
That’s just my impression, though.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Not sure on that, Chezza. If a horse only ran- say- three times and won a mile and a quarter maiden, then the Dante and finally the Derby, then retired unbeaten, he wouldn’t be worth that much at stud in your opinion.
But if he won each of those races by Frankel/Flightline style margins and the horses he beat went on to mop up everything else in his absence, he’d still be worth a fortune.
I’d say “as much” rather than “that much” – he’d still be an unbeaten Derby winner.
You could well be right, but in 2001 Galileo won The Derby, the Irish Derby and the King George.
That was de rigueur back in the day – The Minstrel, Troy, Shergar et al all took the same route.
When, more recently, his son Australia won The Derby and the Irish Derby I thought he would be a moral certainty to go to Ascot.
But he went to York instead.
They wanted to get that 1m2f win into him in a way that just wasn’t an imperative with Derby winners back in the day.
That, allied to Frankel and Baaeed never even attempting 1m4f, suggested to me that, far from running scared of 1m4f, it simply isn’t a commercial priority any more.
That’s my take on it anyway.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Hello Joni how lovely to see you back on here to celebrate Frankel’s daughter winning The Arc.
Who would have thought that 8 years back when you started this Thread that we would be celebrating Frankel as the sire of an Arc winner let alone a grey mare.
I was thinking of you when she won, what a star she is.🌟Hope to see you again at Newmarket one day Joni and perhaps back on your old Thread next year in DLAP’s..
Wonder how that other stunning grey of Frankel’s Logician is getting on at stud I believe they are hoping to breed NH stars from him..
Early days yet but could we back here in another 8 or 9 years celebrating a Grand National winner.
With Frankel nothing is impossible.
..Jac xThings turn out best for those who make the best of how things turn out...
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