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Mike
If the The Listener was trained in Ireland he would be going for the Gold Cup. He has beaten most of the leading horses in Ireland and has won twice on heavy ground over 3 miles or more.
I don’t want this to be a penalty kick for the Nicholls pair and horses such as The Listener, Tamarinbleu, Monet’s Garden, Our Vic might well have brought more pace to the Gold Cup. I’m not saying they would win it, but they would certainly have Kauto & Denman off the bridle.
Geezus ken come on!!! that bunch wouldn’t get Kauto Star of the bridle at level weights with rockets tied to their backsides ………..your miles of the mark mate
For some to say The Listener is a 2m 4f horse is non sensical (on another thread). Yes he has won over 2m 4f and he did it fantastically well but the thing with The Listener is that he is not so unlike the two leading players in as much that he has shown great versatility and the fact that he can win over a variety of trips shows how classy this horse really is and is more than worthy of his place besides Denman, KS and ED. The Listener and indeed Mossbank have had Denman off the bridle and that was with Denman being allowed to dicate the race how best suited to him.
Unless you fancy re-mortgaging there is no value in this race and all we can hope for is that a fairly decent handicapper like Halcon or even Chelsea Harbour plug on for a place and really if they remain fit next year I’m sure it will be much more of the same, as this year’s novices so far don’t look like making the grade.
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For some to say The Listener is a 2m 4f horse is non sensical (on another thread). Yes he has won over 2m 4f and he did it fantastically well
KC
Just stop yourself there, and have a look who is talking nonsense?
RH
Explain. The Listener is NOT a 2m 4f horse. I don’t see why that is nonsense. His best performances against superior opposition has come over 3 miles.
I want to see a competetive Gold Cup, don’t you?
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KC
If you can’t see the contradiction in your own sentence, then there is little hope!
He did it so "fantastically well" in his 2m 4f race that it was by far his most impressive run. Not only did he have good horses on toast from a long way out, he also scored his highest ever RPR and s/f without breaking sweat. Entirely logical then, that his best chance would be in the RyanAir, rather than run him in a race his trainer, jockey, myself and most of Western Europe think he has no chance of lasting home in?If you are questioning my intellect then that is unnecessary. If you are questioning my logic then I will point out to you that he beat a 158 rated horse by 19l over 2m 4f. Nevertheless that 158 rated horse acheived his inflated mark by winning a good ground, seven runner two mile Kerrygold Champion Chase, who in all his previous attempts over 2m 4f had registered only one victory (in a handicap hurdle rated 131) in six tries.
Personally I don’t consider RPR much prefering Official Ratings and his proximity to Denman in a race not run to suit tells me all that I need to know.
The Listener was sired by Roselier the leading sire of 4 mile winning chasers for the last 15 years.
The Listener’s full brother Fork Lightning won the William Hill Chase at the Cheltenham Festival in 2004.
The Listener is also a half brother to other 3 mile winning chasers Distant Thunder & Offshore Account.
If The Listener were to run in this years Irish or Scottish National he would be favourite.
The only thing against him is the Cheltenham undulations.
- Total Posts 17716
It’s a pound to a pinch of salt the undulations won’t trouble him too much in the RyanAir.
RH
Explain. The Listener is NOT a 2m 4f horse. I don’t see why that is nonsense. His best performances against superior opposition has come over 3 miles.
I want to see a competetive Gold Cup, don’t you?
Surely the trainer is under the impression he won’t get the trip and he is outclassed and that is why he chose to go for the Ryanair.
If this race lives up to it’s billing it will be competive without having 25 no hopers cluttering up the scene………Arkle V Mill House with Kings Nephew and Pas Suel made up the gold cup if memory serves me well (can’t be bothered looking back so forgive me if I’m wrong) Anyway it couldn’t have been more competive if there had been 40 runners such ws the superiority of the first two who would still have had the race to themselves.
However when you consider the distances last year with Turpin Green only a few lengths behind ED it’s a sharp reminder that this is not Arkle V Mill House and perhaps more horses should be taking them on but which?
Kauto Star looks to have improved anything up to 10lbs this season and at levels looks unbeatable……..Ok we don’t know if he will stay if the pace is very fast but how many horses inthe Gold Cup or the Ryanair would eben if he didnt?……….The Listener would be the first horse I would suggest doesn’t run he would have no chance against Denman who was far from being on top gear in the Lexus…….you are right he got Denman off the Bridle and the big horse didn’t find much but had Denman not been out for an excercise stroll he would have not turned it into what was more like a sprint from 3 out than a true test of stamina……….Denman will be turning on the tap alot sooner in the Gold Cup and I honestly don’t think The Listener could cope………..The second Sam Thomas changed gear at Lepstwn he left the Listerner in his wake………he doesn’t have the class to handle the big horse at any stage if Sam makes more use of him in the gold Cup, he will be so busy setting a pace that Kauto may not be able to handle he wouldn’t even notice if The Listener was there or not.This Gold Cup has three horse race written all over it ad no matter what runs I can’t see it changing…….Denman has to stretch them from about 7 from home and by 5 from home KS and ED are the only ones with the class to go with him………if more them can, forget Denman he’s beat there and then….as I said in another thread.
The Listener is a better (and more in form) horse than Exotic Dancer. This might be the only soft ground Gold Cup for the next half dozen years, and what a wasted opportunity.
When we are relying on horses such as Knowhere and Halcon to make up numbers what sort of race are we going to have? We might end up with a crawl.
In a sense couldn’t agree with you more Ken the whole race hinges round Denman, but the race should be remebered for something. Denman has never met Kauto Star or Exotic Dancer who are the best two horses on form in the country…..if he flops the race will probably be a repeat of the King George with Kauto coming home alone……That happens and I think it will it will be like the clash of the Titans never happened but Kauto will at last get the title he deserves……"The best since Arkle" would not be a bad thing for racing.
As much as I personally want to see that I would not like to deprive the racing public of an epic dual which would be spoken about for years to come.
Soon find out
The last Festival race to have been hyped nearly as much as this year’s "Blue Ribband" was in 2005 when Moscow Flyer & Azertyuiop met after 2004’s let down when MF departed and again we were let down.
I firmly believe this unnecessary pressure being placed on both horses and their respective jockeys will lead to something going awry for one if not both and that is why I feel The Listener, Mossbank, Old Vic etc. should be standing their ground. They may be not be good enough to beat KS and/or Denman but who knows, they may not have to be. I’m not wishing the two horses ill, far from it, but who knows what will happen?
The Listener is a better (and more in form) horse than Exotic Dancer.
This statement is not supportable on any form line I’m aware of. I’m beggining to wish they had run The Listener in the Gold Cup, in order that you could get a reality check.
Being beaten by a 163 rated, supposed non stayer who, wait for it, outstays you to finish runner up in a King George is not the ideal preparation. I’m with High Ken.
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