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There seems a lot of people saying Kauto could not live with the pace of Denman. What rubbish, Kauto is capable of outstanding form at much shorter trips than Denman, therefore has more pace than Denman. Kauto just was not at his best, for whatever reason. May be (as I suspect) something was hurting, back, hoof. Possibly lost his confidence jumping. There is a possibility Kauto did not stay, with NC gaining on him after the last. I thought that was possible before the race. But in truth he was beaten before stamina became an issue.
Have not seen the time but the first circuit did not seem fast. Halcon Genelardais was not pushed along until Denman took over. Then it was a propper pace.Ginge
Value Is EverythingI don’t know about ratings or times, all I know is that Denman was stunning to watch. Fluent galloping and jumping, unlike Kauto who didn’t jump so well today and had too much to do.
Denman was poetry in motion.kauto travelled and jumped very similar to his 1st run this season behind monets garden at Aintree. what you can take from that i’m not sure yet.
Official handicapper has
Denman 185
Kauto 178
Neptune 178Looks too high to me but still.
like gaz said earlier cant think of any1 who has been a real challenge for kaoto n today there was…… at end of day he was beaten and beaten well he jumped awful from start to finish… denman was infact a true powerhouse…..and nipper ran n jumped total amazing today , incidently for all of you who slated him on a previous thread saying he shouldent even be at the race, glad to se u all proved wrong……………
watch this space nipper will be there 1day………………
x 
Well, hold on, first of all the fact that most of the no hopers did in fact finish near last might indicate the form of the race is not suspect in some aspects?
If it;s not then lets look at the facts…Kauto beat Exotic 12.25 lengths in the King George, today it was 9 lengths, not a big difference (which would indicate the form could be sound). Exotic ran a similar race apart from maybe being up with the field a little more in the King George, and all things considered maybe he has ran to form. If he hasn’t then how did he get 3 lengths closer to Kauto today?
Do you honestly believe Kauto’s King George performance round Kempton would have beaten Denman today and that Kauto hasn’t ran to with 10 pound of that form, and that both Exotic and Kauto have gone wrong? If the answer is yes then i’ll answer back by saying that just because a horse comes second it does not mean it hasn’t run to form, and it doesn’t mean a horse has not run 7 pound better than Kauto on the bridle.
If that is hard to understand, then in short either I am a nut job who is overrating Denman or all the people that are paid to rate horses have overrated Kauto. At the end of the day, I don’t even think Denman was ever off the bridle, and even if you look at the third Neptune i’m sure he will back the general figures up.
As I say, ratings aren’t to be used to crudely but mine tell me unless Denman falls he will never be beaten , and the minimum he has run is 183, once you get in them sort of numbers it’s phantom of the opera stuff regarding what the horse has actually ran. the horse has wings, that all I can say.
183? your are quite substantially overrating Denman, Denamn was deing at the end, and of course he wasn’t off the bridle, i promise you in a race where KS jumps as fluently as Denman did today, Denman will be off the bridle, Denman was dieing at the end, though Denman isn’t the sort of horse where being of f the bridle would make to much difference, he is a grinder more than anything, good win today though, but please lol, it is not a 183, please
Just got back form Cheltenham.
Well done, Denmaniacs – your horse did you proud!! Himself was probably the most vociferous – give yourself a pat on the back!!
Take nothing, I mean absolutely NOTHING away from Denman. That was an awesome performance and worthy of winning any Gold Cup.
About Kauto Star. He was never travelling. People say they went a fast pace, but I’d guarantee the first circuit in last years Gold Cup was quicker.To say that Denman’s injection of pace in the race beat Kauto is foolish. Kauto didn’t travel right from the start and this affected his jumping.
It’s a hard race to judge, really. Both Neptune Collanges’ effort and Exotic Dancer’s poor showing (his interrupted prep could be to blame) make it difficult to analyse.
I will say this. With Denman winning, NC finishing in close proximity to Kauto Star and Halcon Genelardais running a solid race, it gives the impression that it was a race for stayers or ‘old-fashioned’ Gold Cup horses. With that in mind, even though he ran under-par, Kauto Star ran a great race – on slightly better ground he could have been closer.
People may disagree, but I don’t think Denman stayed 3miles2 as well I thought he would. He looked very tired at the end and after the last he was drifting. Considering how much ground KS made up in the straight, he does stay the distance. It was an exact replica of his run last year. He looked as though he was going to get well and truly hammered turning for home (about 10-15 lengths) but stayed on well to reduce the deficit.
Personally, I’d like to see Denman tackle Kauto Star over three miles around Kempton in the King George. I still consider Denman to be very one-dimensional, but a top class right-handed victory around a sharp track would change my mind.
After this weeks racing, I can say I was there when Denman beat Kauto. I was there when Inglis Drever won his third World Hurdle and I was there when Master Minded, the most impressive QM winner in history, won his first (?…) Champion Chase.
The Gold Cup was a great race. The anticipation is always better than the result – that’s the general rule of life, I’m afraid.
Again, well done Tank.
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
ok Denman falls and Kauto star wins or kauto makes no mistakes and passes Denman after the last.
That is the point i was trying to make with Denman in that form Kauto has to be at his very best.Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
ok Denman falls and Kauto star wins or kauto makes no mistakes and passes Denman after the last.
That is the point i was trying to make with Denman in that form Kauto has to be at his very best.oh i totally agree with you there, he would have to be at his very best to beat Denman to day, and he was a long qay from it, but anyone who knows anything about horse racing knows you can loose 2/3 lengths at a fence, i hail Denmans jumping today bar 1 mistake, he was simply good in every single way at what he did, very workmanlike, the way kauto managed to jump so poorly, then manage to get up just b4 he hit the last fence, just makes me feel that kauto is capable of more than what denman did today, but that can not be seen, and may never be seen we shall see, but Denman was VERY good today
hmm i have to put this because i really agree with what you say tenbob lol, it is like man united can beat derby playing their worst football, to beat chelsea they will have to be at their best, and i think its going to be the same for these two horses, i hope for some great matches in the future
Racing Post ratings if I remember correctly had Neptune Collonges on 178, Denman 184 and Kauto Star 189. According to those it looks as if the first two ran to their ratings and Kauto Star ran below par – I think that is a reasonably fair assessment particularly as he would only have been third if Neptune Collonges hadn’t made a mistake at the second last. Apparantly Thomas claimed the winner had ‘something left’ at the end – personally I wouldn’t have liked to have bet on him had the grey got back to him.
Racing Post ratings if I remember correctly had Neptune Collonges on 178, Denman 184 and Kauto Star 189. According to those it looks as if the first two ran to their ratings and Kauto Star ran below par – I think that is a reasonably fair assessment particularly as he would only have been third if Neptune Collonges hadn’t made a mistake at the second last. Apparantly Thomas claimed the winner had ‘something left’ at the end – personally I wouldn’t have liked to have bet on him had the grey got back to him.
Dunno where you got those marks from mate. RPR prior to today were :
Denman 180
Kauto 185
Neptune 174Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
ok Denman falls and Kauto star wins or kauto makes no mistakes and passes Denman after the last.
That is the point i was trying to make with Denman in that form Kauto has to be at his very best.oh i totally agree with you there, he would have to be at his very best to beat Denman to day, and he was a long qay from it, but anyone who knows anything about horse racing knows you can loose 2/3 lengths at a fence, i hail Denmans jumping today bar 1 mistake, he was simply good in every single way at what he did, very workmanlike, the way kauto managed to jump so poorly, then manage to get up just b4 he hit the last fence, just makes me feel that kauto is capable of more than what denman did today, but that can not be seen, and may never be seen we shall see, but Denman was VERY good today
these two could meet again and again and it will be a different result each time unless they both run the perfect race,then you would properly see Kauto as the better horse but untill then Denman keeps the crown.
hmm i have to put this because i really agree with what you say tenbob lol, it is like man united can beat derby playing their worst football, to beat chelsea they will have to be at their best, and i think its going to be the same for these two horses, i hope for some great matches in the future
ageement reached
if they don’t win they get beatIt would not be surprising at all if both Kauto and Exotic Dancer did not run to form today.
Kauto Star had an injury after his last run and for whatever reason has jumped very poorly today. When a horse jumps that badly (compared to his usual self) he is highly unlikely to run to form.
Exotic Dancer has had an interupted preperation and rarely runs well after a long lay off (poor first time out record). Ran better than his position suggests in the King George, paying for mixing it with Kauto. The only time Exotic Dancer has run to form this season was in the Betfair, where Kauto did not have to be at his best to win.
Look how easily Kauto Star beat Our Vic in the King George, and how he then won the Ryanair. What exactly has Neptunes Collonges ever beaten?
If you believe Kauto has run to form then on Timeform ratings Neptunes improved just 1 lb short of 2 stones! Now it might be the Halifax team over rated Kauto (doubt it) but even so…
Now I am not saying Denman did not put up a very good performance. In my opinion he should be rated better than the winning distance suggests (possibly idling, possibly went for everything too soon). Probably the best for many years, but would still rate Kauto the better horse.
It is though possible Denmans performance can be rated above Kauto Stars Gold Cup winning performance. The slow time of last year means those behind the first two were flattered. And if the two meet in next years race, at this stage, I would make Denman the marginal favourite.
Ginge
Value Is EverythingRacing Post ratings if I remember correctly had Neptune Collonges on 178, Denman 184 and Kauto Star 189. According to those it looks as if the first two ran to their ratings and Kauto Star ran below par – I think that is a reasonably fair assessment particularly as he would only have been third if Neptune Collonges hadn’t made a mistake at the second last. Apparantly Thomas claimed the winner had ‘something left’ at the end – personally I wouldn’t have liked to have bet on him had the grey got back to him.
Dunno where you got those marks from mate. RPR prior to today were :
Denman 180
Kauto 185
Neptune 174Thanks for the correction – at least the differences are same.
A horse that usually jumps very well (bar the odd mistake at the last) can not run to the same form if jumping poorly. Especially at Cheltenham, can not be done.
Again Marb, you are saying about pace. Kauto is capable of winning at shorter trips than Denman. Your arguement does not make sence.
Ginge
Value Is Everything
watch this space nipper will be there 1day………………
x 
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