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As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.
I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.
This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.
Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.
Yes, but has he travelled as fast and jumped fluently before with a horse like Denman out in-front of him? ? ?
The first lap was run at a slow pace, but Denman upped the pace in the second lap, and this got Kauto Star out of his comfort zone. His jumping wasn’t the most fluent on the first circuit, but with the added pace and pressure Denman was applying in the second circuit, it added to Kauto Star’s mistakes at his fences.
To echo an earlier post, racing was the winner today. There always going to be chance that one or the other might not perform to his best. That horse was KS today. I backed Denman and was thrilled to see him win.
My well informed dad says Denman wouldn’t have got much further but he didn’t have to did he? Great horses, great performance and finally a very sporting reaction from connections of both horses. Too rare a thing these days. Is it really a year until we get to see it again? .
As i said in my earlier post, i think Kauto Star didn’t like having things dictated to him.
I can’t remember another race where there has been a horse of Denman’s ability to make the running and dictate things as much towards Kauto Star.
This put Kauto Star under pressure, which made his jumping become less fluent and caused him to hit a few of his fences.
Im sorry but this can not be possible, it wasn’t a fast race, kauto HAS travelled faster and jumped fluently before, imho Kauto star is come horse to be able to wallop all those fences and still pick it up to get second, unless something is seriously wrong with him, he will be back, after 5 fences i knew Kauto couldn’t win, he just wasn’t jumping at all.
Yes, but has he travelled as fast and jumped fluently before with a horse like Denman out in-front of him? ? ?
The first lap was run at a slow pace, but Denman upped the pace in the second lap, and this got Kauto Star out of his comfort zone. His jumping wasn’t the most fluent on the first circuit, but with the added pace and pressure Denman was applying in the second circuit, it added to Kauto Star’s mistakes at his fences.
There was one constant in the hole of KS race, the mistakes at the fences, they didn’t change or get worse, it was just always there. Ruby will never run on Denman as long as KS is around, you could see how disappointed he was that he just wasn’t jumping, and someone said he took the sting out of KS finishing, not AT ALL KS was machining along, then walloped the final fence lol and took him of his rythem for probably the 20th time in that race. Bring on round two i say ^^
I agree with Salselon. I didnt have a bet and was happy to see either win, but Kauto’s jumping was the least efficient i have seen this season and whilst it may not have altered the result, that has to be a few pounds below his best
Hope Sam Thomas keeps the ride on Denman..however, I fear that, being such a big horse he may be difficult to keep sound….
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.
As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.
As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.
I disaggree, i don’t think it would hav been impressive at all, it was just a slow race, dissappointing than none of the hype materialised, but even the best horse have off days. Any idea when the re match would be?
Well, some will obviously be interested to know how fast it actually was, and no doubt the speed raters will take a view, but I am conscious of the fact that Grasshopper was adamant before the Champion that he didn’t give a toss what the ratings said about Sizing Europe, and that they had got it wrong (and he was right). So basically I don’t think ratings will get everything right, but to my naked eye Denman improved at least 10 pound on what he’s ever done and the proximity of Exotic Dancer and Kauto would suggest Denman could have run near 190+ today. That don’t make him a 190 horse all i’m saying is it’s possible.
we’ll see, any idea how long it takes for them to get the ratings up on the rp website?
Denman on this day made the rest of the runners have a bad day when he runs in that style you have to be at your very best to get near him. kauto run his heart out but was pressured to make mistakes same applies to Exoctic dancer.
This is again wrong lol, i stress again KS has gone quicker than what wwe have just seen. Kauto jumped once really well, the first fence lol. maybe he was under pressure for the rest of the race then? ^^
Deifferent tests though. If you’d listened to Harry Findlays interview on RUK prior to the race he was saying how distance runners (humans) win the races with a mid race surge more often than they win on the run in. Its the same with horses. Denman injected the pace when Sam let him go on and Kauto was never comfortable with it, Ruby always knew Denman wasn’t going to stop and he had to quicken by him, it puts tremendous pressure on a horses jumping – it shows how well Denman was gallopping when so few horses even got near to landing a blow. Denman cracked them with that relentless high cruising speed.
As I said before take Denman out of the race and Ruby would’ve took a pull on Kauto behind Neptune Collonges and gone by him in his own time and it would’ve looked impressive.
I disaggree, i don’t think it would hav been impressive at all, it was just a slow race, dissappointing than none of the hype materialised, but even the best horse have off days. Any idea when the re match would be?
It wasn’t a slow race at all. The time was 8 seconds slower than standard, compare that with the three miler (race before) which was 22 seconds slower than standard. Denman’s time is comparatively the fastest of the day by some considerable margin and in the conditions the time is very good.
I think Neptunes Collonges improved for the biggest test of stamina he has ever faced. However, Neptunes, as good as Kauto? Don’t be daft he did not improve that much.
Kauto jumped as if feeling his back, not his usual fluent self.
The best horse did not win. The best horse on the day won. The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter. It may well be Denman will improve further, but for now, Kauto Star should still be rated the better horse.Ginge
Value Is EverythingIf that is a 190 performance, KS has put up a lifetime best! I’d be more inclined to say Kauto and NC have met in the middle, due to a poor performance by the former and an improvement which the later is perfectly entitled to at his age. That makes them about 176, and thus Denman 183 or so, putting that performance 1lb ahead of Kauto in the King George (at a quick glance I hasten to add).
I think Neptunes Collonges improved for the biggest test of stamina he has ever faced. However, Neptunes, as good as Kauto? Don’t be daft he did not improve that much.
Kauto jumped as if feeling his back, not his usual fluent self.
The best horse did not win. The best horse on the day won. The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter. It may well be Denman will improve further, but for now, Kauto Star should still be rated the better horse.Ginge
so Very true, Neptunes does look a nice prospect though, as ruby said ‘ the best horse on the day won’
I think Neptunes Collonges improved for the biggest test of stamina he has ever faced. However, Neptunes, as good as Kauto? Don’t be daft he did not improve that much.
Kauto jumped as if feeling his back, not his usual fluent self.
The best horse did not win. The best horse on the day won. The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter. It may well be Denman will improve further, but for now, Kauto Star should still be rated the better horse.Ginge
Completely different tests Ginge. At Kempton over three miles Kauto would have too much toe for Denman unless the ground was desperate but on soft ground on an undulating track like Cheltenham its a completely different test. Thats why the likes of One Man, Wayward Lad couldn’t win a Gold Cup.
I have Denman 179 today with Kauto and Neptune 172.
Incidentally I rated Kauto’s win last year at 173 with is pretty much the same run. He’s not quite as good over 3 1/4 miles at Cheltenham as he is over 3 miles.
i think he did that to over half the fences tbh? thats the worst jumping i have ever seen him do
You can’t take a thing away from Denman today he did exactly everything to plan. He’s is a very very good horse and you can only praise the horse he hasn’t put a foot wrong..
I was never happy with the way Kauto was travelling form the moment he made a couple of errors in front of the stands. At that time Denman turned the tap on and Kauto never looked happy at any stage.
I wanted and expected to see only two horses in the race over the last 2 fences or possible a 3rd in the shape of Exotic Dancer.
Instead we have a horse who unless you think he’s as good as Kauto Star has cast a huge shadow of doubt on Kauto’s performance.
For me he’s come of the bridle too quickly a long way from home.
He was struggling to get to the 3rd horse never mind Denman.Exotic Dancer was no help at all in solving the puzzle and would have been as well staying at home.
If Kauti has stayed in the bridle until the 3rd or second last and Denman Kicked and Kauto ran out of gas then and been beaten 7 lengths or so with nothing else in sight I would be hailing Denman as The New Arkle right now.
I wish there were no excuses for Kauto but unfortunately there are going to be a lot of people who will say Kauto Star never ran any sort of race jumped badly wasn’t right, whatever.
This goes way back to the first time Arkle and Mill House met and Mill House won……..many said Arkle would have won had he not made a bad blunder.
This debate will go on until they meet again.
What should be remembered is that Denman proved he is way better than his Hennessy form or Lexus form indicated.
I think everyone will agree that was one of Kauto’s worst performances. It doesn’t change the fact that this horse is one very high classed animal.
If Kauto Star V Denman happens again and Kauto travels and jumps better like we know he can, he has still got to get to and pass this brute of a horse.
That will be no easy task.
I think Neptunes Collonges improved for the biggest test of stamina he has ever faced. However, Neptunes, as good as Kauto? Don’t be daft he did not improve that much.
Kauto jumped as if feeling his back, not his usual fluent self.
The best horse did not win. The best horse on the day won. The quality of Denmans performance was not as good as Kauto Stars King George performance, or Master Mindeds Queen Mother for that matter. It may well be Denman will improve further, but for now, Kauto Star should still be rated the better horse.Ginge
Completely different tests Ginge. At Kempton over three miles Kauto would have too much toe for Denman unless the ground was desperate but on soft ground on an undulating track like Cheltenham its a completely different test. Thats why the likes of One Man, Wayward Lad couldn’t win a Gold Cup.
Of course Friggo, they are completely different but you can judge the quality of the oposition, whether at 2m, 3m or 3m2f.
Value Is Everything
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