- This topic has 136 replies, 36 voices, and was last updated 22 years, 4 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Straw Clutching, are you mad (possibly)………… Esc you never fail to amuse :shades:
<br>I said there is no way of telling how Istabraq would have run had he not been injured during the race……… what is it about that you cannot understand? <br>Please dont refer me to Alistair Downs article, i know exactly what Aidan O’Brien had been saying before the race, and as our Aidan pointed out, all he was doing was explaining that they new they were up against it, that they were attempting to make history, they were trying to do something that had never been done before, they new it was no easy task, they new Istabraq may not be as good as he once was, but would he have needed to be? Only one way to find out and thats to run him. Perhaps you should have called Aidan O’Brien before the race and told him what you knew, that Istabraq, quite frankly, had no chance. You could have saved them the journey over…… :shades:
<br>kathy
firstly i will say on your reply i noticed my typing error and have corrected it (should have written it down as ink survives the worst memory:) ) so am not trying to be funny
thank you so much for sharing info i do much rather prefer the horse is well type rather than the unfounded conspiricy theory type
and why do you use " " when typing injury as u say you cannot prove otherwise and u have not stated any reason as to why it would be benificial for the connections to lie about it
What Istabraq’s connections were doing is OBVIOUS!!
They HOPED he’d be able to win and they HOPED he’d be fit enough to win.
There’s nothing sinister happening, just the connections of a brilliant horse trying to get one last big run out of him. Istabraq didn’t go down to the start well (looked very scratchy) and perhaps he should have been pulled out then.
They should have been EXPECTING Istabraq to run well but they were just living on HOPE. Sadly, it didn’t work out.
As for this 100k bet – does anyone seriously believe Paddy Power would risk losing 800k?
Maybe the bet was only 10k or 1k or 1 pound 50p….but 100k! No chance.
Why would JP want to bet on Istabraq pulling up anyway? He cares to much about the horse to do that.
Maybe it was someone else, someone who has no connection to the horse whatsoever and was placing a bet that he/she thought was a winner. If it was 100k then the 8/1 wouldn’t have lasted would it!!
Hi Esc,
Somewhere in this huge thread that’s what i said earlier – they shoudn’t have gone there hoping for the best. But that’s what they did.
I don’t think the connections of Istabraq were up to anything dodgy – those are the rumours i object to.
Looking at the way the horse went down though, i’m not entirely convinced they should have run him.
one more thing – punters were warned time and time again that Istabraq’s fitness wasn’t as good this year as it was in the past. I can’t feel sorry for those who backed him because they knew that the horse had a hell of a task and i’m sure many backed him because of sentiment – and you can’t do that in racing.
Escorial,
Just a theory as to how AOB was so quick off the mark.
From my position in the stands, in front of the Mill House bar, not far from where the trainers watch the races you are looking almost head on down the track, from here with the aid of binoculars, I had a fairly clear view of Istabraq jumping the first hurdle on the inside in mid-division. After jumping the hurdle the horse faltered slightly and began to lose ground at which point he dropped to the rear and my view of the horse became slightly obscured.
At this point (with the horses about 50 yards on from the first flight) I turned to my friend who had taken the 8/1 Istabraq to be pulled up for fifty quid (knocked back from the £100 he had requested) and told him his bet was a winner.
It doesn’t seem inconceivable that AOB saw this for himself from his vantage point, or was informed by one of his minions that the horse wasn’t travelling, so explaining why he was on his way out of the stands before the horse was actually pulled up.
I don’t think it was pre-decided that he should pull up in front of the stands, although I do think the connections realised that the horse was unlikely to complete.
As to all the conspiracy theories regarding betting coups, guaranteeing the crowds turned up etc., no-one really takes those seriously do they?
I suspect the reason for Escorials venom towards Istabraq is that he had a bad week last week at Cheltenham and wants to lash out.<br>If you look at the Channel4 coverage Istabraq is in trouble about 30 seconds before Simon Holt announces he has pulled up.<br>Its pointless having an arguement with Escorial we all know he is a master debater.The first arguement I had with him was after the Whitbread last year when he said 33s Ad Hoc for the Gold Cup should be taken immediately-I advised waiting 6 months until he ran again.
<br>kathy
for what its worth i know quite a few owners whom back their horses religously chance or no chance they wont hear a word said against them dosnt mean its right though
re the article the ever popular barry dennis i think the guys argument falls down flat with this one sentence
the man is not even popular with people in his own trade.
and the difference between this comparison and your wild conspiricy theories is as i said in an earlier post if the horse was owned by a nomark…………… (a loud mouthed oink) whose financial circumstances are completely different to jps there may be some point but i stress only maybe
so now aside from wild newspaper stories , the sport on sunday for your info found a bus on the moon and even found a woman raped by santa claus and his three reindeer could u bring some facts to the table instead of gossip and fishermans wives tales.
or are you trying to sell the observer as i belive there sales are struggling at present
If you were a jockey on a horse you suspect to be injured would you ride him back or get off straight away?
Perfectly justifiable to ask questions, but I don’t personally see how connections can be taken to task too much on this occasion. They’d made it clear that he had his going days and his non-going days and that it would be a miracle if he managed to pull it off.
From my vantage point in Tatts (ha ha ha) even I could see without binoculars that Istabraq wasn’t travelling on the run to the second flight. Furthermore, in the parade he was ominously laid back, and nowhere near the boiling point we associate with Istabraq on his big days at Prestbury Park.
If I could see it was all a bit of a struggle from where I was, I can only guess how quickly Aidan O’Brien perceived it. Perhaps Charlie could have pushed for a while longer because, in retrospect, Valiramix’s terrible demise meant the race didn’t take as much winning as usual, but I’m afraid the punter must always come second to the welfare of any horse, let alone Istabraq.
<br>dl
fitzgerald on marlborough at sandown rode back but some dismount but i would think they consider lameness more serious at racing speed rather then walking
This is great reading keep it up all :laugh:
I suppose aOB was so quick off the mark, because he wanted to collect his winnings from the 8-1 on Isty pulling up..ASAP..I said to my girlfriend as we were watching the C4 coverage on the way to th epost, that he looked pottery and delicate, and during the race it was clear to see he wasnt right.C.Swan did the right thing imo as all he could have achieved was to injure a great horse.
However why was he allowed to run in the first place, well i wonder how much CHELTENHAM itself had to do with this, they wanted one last Hurrah for the horse whether in victory or defeat and where better than at Cheltenham, and im sorry but anyone who backed him, deserved to lose there money, as sentimentality wins nothing, i personally will remember him between 1997-2000 when he was an incredible horse.
As for this getting personal lark..Well GROW UP basically.
To answer the question tho no i dont believe it was a stitch up, and had it been any other horse no one would give that much of a toss either..2bh, so its testament to the horse that.
Beaks<br>
Kathy i will try to answer for you. I always believed that the CH wood be his last race, however the injury has made sure that it is.
"PR – nod, nod, wink, wink , yes I am in a great position to find out bits of gossip from certain racecourses and yards and you should be grateful that I share them with you"
That’s good to know Kathy, but I’d love to know who your contact is in AP O’Briens yard. It might not have crossed your mind that people at other yards would be all too happy to spread malicious rumours about a rival,
Kathy, I don’t understand your long messages. You seem to be backtracking from what originally started the thread….
Listen, can we get one thing clear here. Many many horses ran at Cheltenham last week and only 20 of them actually won. Many ran poor races. There is nothing wrong with them taking a chance at Isty ..the interviews, as we’ve said did not come to any firm conclusion with AP not bullish or anything like that. Ok, it didn’t come off but that’s life – anyone who backed Isty knew what they were risking, as Aidan had said..
As for analysing why AP left during the race and stuff to get Isty, and all this kind of stuff. What a load of crap ! That has to be the most ridiculous discussion I’ve ever seen, analysing the movements of trainer. I think Aidan O’Brien knows more about Istabraq than anyone and he knew he wasn’t going well. I’m sure they told Charlie that if they felt he was injured to look after the horse and that’s what he did. Nothing sinister about that at all,
We are getting away from the fact that what is making many people so angry is the allegations that this was all one big sham, crooked operation with JP making money on the side. As Luke said, this man is offering to build a national stadium with his own money !!! He doesn’t need to have money on sidebets. The fact is, an owner like Barry Dennis might need to. But this is JP Mc Manus.
There is nothing wrong with them hoping the horse would be right on the day, they never said otherwise but please stop this ridiculous speculation
Escorial and Kathy, your last two messages really are ridiculous. You are almost rubbing your hands with glee at finding someone like minded. Why didn’t he get the ferry ? Why was the lass leading him around if he was injured. It’s so so easy to throw out these random comments when there is no real defence to them. You have no facts to back up these comments whereas we need facts to somehow prove our defence to be true,
And so what if some journalist says otherwise. He’s only a bloody journalist. These are people like me and you with opinions, no-one special at all. Frankly, it’s the most speculative piece of crap ever…
This thread should be put to sleep..
Oh dear!!!<br>Kathy:Istabraq was NEVER going home that night as he was going to have company with O’Brien’s Darapour the following night.Darapour ran in the Coral Cup the following day and is basically(along with Theatreworld) Istabraq’s companions.As for Charile Swan not getting off him,a rider makes very little difference to a lame horse.Anyway he soon got off him and walked him in.As for Istabraq retiring I believe it was widely acknowlegded that this would be his last season either way.<br>Escorial: as Charile Swan said a billion million times he kept going on Istabraq as he felt his action might improve on the better ground.It was much tackier and soft up to the second jump than on the rest of the course.<br>
<br> wouldnt the racecourse vet also be the same very person as whom conducts the dope test
Kathy, you may find it interesting, I find it disturbing to think that some people may actually believe some of the things being said
Anyone new to the game would presume, from reading this thread, that McManus, O’Brien and co are dodgy operators
I dont know the procedures at Cheltenham and if the vet takes drugs sample etc but it is possible he does.<br> Most horse injurys are examined while the horse is on the move.Much easier to find it and in particular if he is lame or sore back it should show much clear while walking than if he were standing still.<br> If this is what people are basing their theories on surely its thin ice!!?
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.