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Can’t help but feel that there’s a bit of inverse snobbery going on here. The Whaley Cohens have had their share of bad luck and, I believe, give a lot to charity because of it. If they buy good horses and want their son to ride then it’s their business. Always seems like a very pleasant young man when interviewed.
Inverse snobbery ? Care to point out what is inversely snobby about someone having a go at another jockey blocking a ride for someone else ? or maybe some people just want to see Stravisnky Dance run ? the fact is he is acting like a spoilt brat, and many people are saying it, probably because it’s true. You never see any other jockeys out there calling the shots in such a petty manner.
Sorry, how is someone who wishes to ride both horses, and does so because of obvious reasons, a spoilt little brat for having the desire to do so and just being annoyed that, in all probability, they won’t be able to do so? This is an awful thread.
A thread that splits peoples opinions isn’t a bad one. I do believe that plenty of people out there in a similar position would let someone else take the ride on SD.
People, it is his horse and it is his choice to ride it and he is a more than capable rider. Ive seen him a few times in points. We had the same carry on when Doreen Calder always rode the great hunter Flying Ace. Some said he would have won more if a man had ridden him (only one ever did; the late Charlie McMillan at Roberthill – he won)or if he had been put under rules. It was her horse and her choice to have the fun of riding it. Same with young Mr Waley Cohen, his horse, his fun. Nobody is forcing you to back Stravinsky Dance ante post, it is called gambling after all.
Leave him alone.
The thread is a character assassination based on a few words from Sam Waley-Cohen in print, which I, myself, just interpreted as disappointment that he can’t ride both horses on the same day as it stands.
The point is not his disappointment, of course he would be disappointed not to ride the horse but implying they might pull the horse out if he can’t ride it is bound to get peoples back up, racing doesn’t stop for one person and he should realise whilst the horses are his toys it isn’t his game and give the punters some respect, they knew the difficulties of being able to get from one track to another in the time span so either don’t enter the horse or get another jockey.
…and still no-one has mentioned that the reason why Waley-Cohen will not be able to ride both horses is because C4 Racing has chosen to alter the timing of the later race.
Perhaps we should allow Alastair Down to decide the stewards enquiries, Tarnya to judge the photo finishes and Barry Dennis to be Clerk of The Course.
The "Long Run is hyped" "debate" is always a sure-fire way of discovering which people do and do not have a clue.
………..or, at least, don’t understand the meaning of "hype" in the context used.
A typical example of a "hype" horse was Henderson’s juvenile hurdler, Approaching, at Sandown on Saturday; never jumped a hurdle in public, sent off the 11/10 favourite.
Whereas LONG RUN has class form in France and was, in informed people’s (Grasshopper and Irish Stamp for two, who keep a very close eye on the French jumping scene) eyes, bound to make the grade here.
Colin
Inverse snobbery ? Care to point out what is inversely snobby about someone having a go at another jockey blocking a ride for someone else ? or maybe some people just want to see Stravisnky Dance run ? the fact is he is acting like a spoilt brat, and many people are saying it, probably because it’s true. You never see any other jockeys out there calling the shots in such a petty manner.
He’s not "blocking a ride for somebody else" – it’s their sodding horse and it’s up to them who rides it. People own horses for all sorts of reasons, but to provide a betting medium for punters isn’t normally one of them.
I agree with the inverted snobbery comments – you’re just jealous because he’s got a helicopter
Goldikova – just an observation but perhaps there would have been fewer allegations of "inverse snobbery" had you not chosen to highlight Waley-Cohen every time it appeared in the opening post, seemingly emphasising the double-barrelled name. Intentional or not there is an implication there.
As has be ably pointed out elsewhere the Waley-Cohen’s own the horses ergo they decide who rides their horses and when the horses run. As Happy points out the situation is absolutely no different to that of Ann Stokell on the flat.
OK ante-post punters may possibly lose out but that is a risk you take with ante-post betting, there are 101 reasons why a horse may not run.
Pru has raised the most pertinent point in the entire post and that is the influence C4 has in the race scheduling. It wouldn’t be quite so galling had they actually paid to cover the sport – they seem to want things both ways.
Why was Binocular’s race the opener at Sandown on Saturday.
On the formbook the 11/8 about Long Run for the Feltham was the greatest bet of all time. I made him considerably shorter and he duly obliged.
As for Stravinsky Dance there’s been no hype surrounding her, Nicky Henderson thought she was well handicapped on her second to Long Run early in 2009 and as Grasshopper pointed out elsewhere on the forum it was dangerous to take that at face value and as I myself pointed out in the Mares Hurdle thread in the "Cheltenham" section of the forum she wasn’t the typical type to train on from 4 to 5, nor was I 100% convinced she’d trained on from 3 to 4 for that matter.
As for the assertion that you’d rather miss 3 winners than back 1 loser CS the only way that would make sense is if you were backing long odds-on, which in itself is generally a route to the poor house.
Back to SWC – I was far from impressed with his ride on Stravinsky Dance at Ascot and would much prefer a pro jockey on such as Barry Gerraghty, Paul Carberry (who rides in a similar style to many French jockeys) or A N Other.
I don’t see how it is spitting his dummy out as such, depending on when he was interviewed he might just have been beaten on a short-priced favourite for his father at Whitfield (Irilut).
Did anyone accuse Paul Nicholls of spitting his dummy out when he said he didn’t run Woolcombe Folly last week because Ruby couldn’t ride?
As for the Long Run debate – as Prufock points out it’s a sure fire way to work out who knows there racing and who doesn’t.
Goldikova – just an observation but perhaps there would have been fewer allegations of "inverse snobbery" had you not chosen to highlight Waley-Cohen every time it appeared in the opening post, seemingly emphasising the double-barrelled name. Intentional or not there is an implication there.
As has be ably pointed out elsewhere the Waley-Cohen’s own the horses ergo they decide who rides their horses and when the horses run. As Happy points out the situation is absolutely no different to that of Ann Stokell on the flat.
OK ante-post punters may possibly lose out but that is a risk you take with ante-post betting, there are 101 reasons why a horse may not run.
Pru has raised the most pertinent point in the entire post and that is the influence C4 has in the race scheduling. It wouldn’t be quite so galling had they actually paid to cover the sport – they seem to want things both ways.
Why was Binocular’s race the opener at Sandown on Saturday.
Fair enough Paul. I only highlighted his name in Pink, not too put emphasis on his double barreled name, but to indicate that he was acting like a big girls blouse.
I don’t have an ante post on this horse for this particular race as it happens. Although, i do understand your concerns about Channel 4 altering the race schedule. To me it’s one of those things, but i’m not as avid a horse racing fan as you are to be fair.
I think some people are being a tad harsh on CS. He wouldn’t be the first person to under estimate a class horse. I think Long Run is the real McCoy myself, and possible 2012 GC winner, but let’s not get carried away with regards to people who aren’t on the band wagon. The more opposition the better.
Per Stravinksy Dance’s Ascot run on January 23rd, it may be worth mentioning that by being at Ascot, Sam Waley-Cohen was unable to ride his Foxhunters aspirant Roulez Cool in a Mens Open point at Larkhill the same afternoon.
Ostensibly that was no less important a race, as victory was required to secure Roulez Cool’s eligibility for the Foxhunters. However, connections were evidently happy the gelding had enough in hand to repel all boarders whoever was on board (within reason), and were entirely amenable therefore to letting James Tudor take the ride on that one ahead of Sam. Roulez Cool duly obliged.
Maybe therein lies the point. Young Sam’s frustration may be borne out of the sense that there is still fact-finding work to be done on the racetrack with the likes of Stravinsky Dance, Long Run, etc. in the way that there isn’t with Roulez Cool (who would have hosed up in pretty much any Open point run last weekend barring, perhaps, the Coronation Cup, had the Tudor ride not gone as planned), and he wants to be part of it. His prerogative, and I can’t blame him for that.
Per Irilut, Irish, I’m not sure how disappointed they’d have been with his eclipsing at short odds on Sunday, as they’ve done well to keep him fit and overachieving for this long. At 14 years of age and long since an idle sod, he was no value at all for me, and I think the bookies were a bit dazzled by which connections it was and his 20 previous pointing wins to put him in as short as they did. He’ll find another Open or two this winter, but they’ll be soppier races than the Whitfield one.
Finally – Long Run in the Kingmaker? Not my preferred choice for the gelding. That’s going to tell us nothing about his ability to jump downhill at speed, one vital question he has still to answer in any race-condition capacity.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
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I don’t know Walley-Cohen in fact I wouldn’t know him if he jumped up and bit me but it seems to me you can’t have money without some a-hole calling you a dick.
What I do l know is he has the goolies to get up on a racehorse and fly round places like Cheltenham risking life and limb which is ok by me, not sit at home hiding behind their mothers apron writing posts about people who have got a lot more balls than them.
Have a nice day Goldi but I think your a complete Wally-Cohen yourself.
You must be getting on a bit Fist, so i will put your comments down to dimentia. If you could remember properly, you’d know that you’re one of the biggest a-sholes on this planet. Some people have short memories.
Can someone tell me where i mentioned money, as one or two of you seem to have seen something in my original post that i haven’t ? being spoilt is as much to do with attitude, as it has possesion.
I get a feeling that one or two of you would like to intentionally mis-interpet my post, to show others that you have money. We all know how you like to run you mouth about this kind of thing Fisty. However, there are some things in life that money can’t buy.
Thanks for watching my back Goldikova but I’ve got a thick enough skin to withstand all but the most abusive comments. These can come after The Festival so for those who don’t agree with my views on Long Run, why not get all your "I told you so" posts ready in draft form if I’m proved wrong at Cheltenham I’ll wallpaper my hall with them, there’s bound to be plenty!
My main concern with the horse is that he’s already had 13 outings over jumps, 5 of them over fences, that’s typical of an over-raced French trained.
In view of all that experience and even allowing for the different type of fences he’s a shocking jumper, add to that the sky high expectaions and the fact that the jockey is no more than a decent amateur (he’s no Nina Carberry for instance) and to me it’s recipe for disaster.I’ve been wrong at the top level before….most natably I was the know it all who told everyone who would listen to me that Mill House would NEVER EVER beat Arkle and that was in the weeks leading up to their first meeting at Newbury
and I was covinced Kingsciffe would win the next years The Gold Cup after he won the Foxhunters
and I was covinced Kingsciffe would win the next years The Gold Cup after he won the Foxhunters- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.