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Your talking about the casual owners and syndicate owners.
I’m talking about a group of owners who make up the bed-rock of the Scottish Racing game, and indeed horse racing in general. if it wasn’t for these owners there wouldn’t be sellers at Wolverhampton, or anywhere else for that matter.
Many people bet on their own horses. As a member of a Racehorse Owners’ Club in the past I’ve done it, but it’s got nothing to do with inside information, or a gamble or any such, rather it’s just loyalty to your own charge.
Rob
I find some of the posts on this thread laughable quite frankly. Some don’t want to discuss the subject at all (will not help) and some seem to be approaching the sport with some sort of corinthian spirit that simply does not exist in reality.
Horse racing has always and will always be a sport who’s very existance
is based around (to whatever extent) the exchange of information between those in the know i.e. Trainers, jockeys, bookies, owners etc etc to the detriment (unfortunately) of those out of the loop i.e. the average punter in the bookies, online and on the course. This is am inbuilt bias that cannot be altered no matter how clean the sport is.If you add into the mix the playing of the handicap system, schooling in public, laying on betfair, jockey’s holding back and jumping off horses etc etc the game becomes even more biased against the average punter.
Luckily for the powers that be in racing, the british working class (and it is these people that keep the sport going!) will bet on the toss of the coin and would probably bet tails on a two headed coin if you sold em it properly.
As with any racket there has to be a fine line kept in the balance between those in the know making a whole lot of money and those out of the loop in the bookies making small bits and pieces here and there (and lets not forget that a few quid here and there adds up to multi millions profits). As such those that regulate horse racing have to come down tough on any obvious corruption because the sport is teetering on the verge of a proven scandal that could devestate the sport once and for all. They were very close with the Fallon case i.m.o.
Perhaps this thread would be better spent rooting out the obvious problems with racing and working out any improvements that could help a sport we all love
I find some of the posts on this thread laughable quite frankly. Some don’t want to discuss the subject at all (will not help) and some seem to be approaching the sport with some sort of corinthian spirit that simply does not exist in reality.
sixfieldsboy
I’m perfectly happy to discuss the matter with anyone on this thread, whatever their opinion. I post under my own name and anyone who wishes to discuss my opinions face to face only has to let me know when they are visiting Scotland and I’d be quite happy to have a chat about the game.
The thread is about corruption being ‘endemic’ in the game. If I honestly beleived that corruption was blighting the game to that extent then I very much doubt any interest in it.
There are faults with some parts of racing, the organisation of the sport could certainly be improved and I that point I feel many on here have positive contributions to make towards that, just a few being in a postiion to have a minor influence.
A few on here quite happily ramble on about how the game is ‘bent’ yet are clearly still quite happy to bet on it.
Schooling in public still happens but is infinitely better policed than it was in my younger days. I’ve covered this before on this thread, but the strokes that were pulled in the 60s and 70s wouldn’t have an earthly of getting past the stewards these days. Stewards are much maligned, but the standard of their performance has made a quantum leap over the last 20 years, aided by knowledgeable stewards’ secretaries and a plethora of new technology in the video field.
Jockeys Jumping off horses? Quite frankly I get cheesed off with this old chestnut that gets aired too regularly on the Forum. Denis O’Regan was accused of ‘jumping off’ Artless at Perth when the horse violently changed direction in mid-air over the first hurdle giving O’Regan no earthly chance of staying aboard. Another incident where the hypothesis of ‘jumping off’ was aired saw a hurdler at Cartmel whack a hurdle then stumble shooting the jockey over the head. It’s like catching a stick in the spokes of your bike and wondering why you disappear over the handlebars, as I did when I was younger, and it ain’t fun! The only genuine jump-off accusation that stuck was that of Sean Fox at Fontwell, and I wasn’t 100% convinced that one. I can believe that one or two have taken the jump off route on a few nutcase novice chasers but that’s purely self preservation.
Laying on Betfair has opened up an avenue for corruption and one I’m sure has been used by people within the game. However, policing of Betfair accounts and tracking of mobile phone records means there is a big risk attached. Can anyone honestly say that bookmakers wouldn’t have tapped jockeys sometime in the past and layed horses on information received. Yes it happens, but it’s policed and, even if some of the charges don’t stick, the exercise of attempted prosecutions at least lets the accused know that the authorities are aware of them.
In built bias against the punter? Of course there is, always has been and always will be, it’s called the bookies’/layers’ margin.
A ‘proven scandal’ damaging the sport. It may do in the short term, but in the long-term I doubt it. In my opinion, Keiran Fallon is a proven idiot but no more than that. If nothing else a scandal where the perpetrator is caught at least signals that the sport is addressing it’s problems. There will be uninformed rubbish written in the papers, but then that happens on an everyday basis about a myriad of subjects and ‘todays news is tomorrows chip paper’.
‘Luckily for the powers that be in racing, the british working class (and it is these people that keep the sport going!) will bet on the toss of the coin and would probably bet tails on a two headed coin if you sold em it properly.’ – For ‘racing’ read ‘life’, and ’twas ever thus! People are greedy, they want something for nothing. People go into betting shops and play on fruit machinesand, worse of all bet on cartoon racing, which sums up the betting public to me. To a certain extent if these people are betting on racing ‘against me’ then bring ’em on, more chance if I’m opposing ill-informed money.
I’m clearly p***ing in the wind against a few on this thread. I’m normally have a ‘cup half full’ outlook rather than a ‘cup half empty’ view and I suspect I’m preaching to the unconvertable with some.
There are corrupt elements in the game, as in all walks of life, but the game itself is not inherently corrupt.
There are corrupt elements in the game, as in all walks of life, but the game itself is not inherently corrupt.
Ditto. Very good post Rob.
Hear hear. Well said that man.
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
Certainly know when im a owner, it will be all about landing a few punts and enjoying the sport. Not trying to win a 3k race.
And of course it will be easy – whenever you decide to go for it, none of the other horses in your race will be trying to do the same thing.
Rob,
Outstanding stuff mate, brilliant last few posts, all I have been trying to say but without your eloquance. Including the Sean Fox case (see my earlier post), I was there.
Well done Sir
Racing Insider,
If you truly believed this story about a betting coup you have a duty to go to the authorities. If you do not, you can blame people like yourself for racing being "bent".
May be it was from another racing insider who wanted others to think he was more important than he is. Some people working within racing make up stories so that we might think they themselves are more interesting, or (more often) just say things they think the listener wants to hear.
That is not to say stable staff, trainers etc. do not do a tremendous job, we owe a lot to them.
Mark
Value Is EverythingCertainly know when im a owner, it will be all about landing a few punts and enjoying the sport. Not trying to win a 3k race.
And of course it will be easy – whenever you decide to go for it, none of the other horses in your race will be trying to do the same thing.
Careful Alan, he might think you mean it.
Mark
Value Is EverythingDenis O’Regan was accused of ‘jumping off’ Artless at Perth when the horse violently changed direction in mid-air over the first hurdle giving O’Regan no earthly chance of staying aboard.
Rob, as it me that made this claim allow me to place it in context. (I couldn’t be bothered at the time as some were becoming clearly hysterical)
The purpose of my post was to highlight the perceived speed at which racing journo’s appear to grub around looking for excuses. In this particular instance it was GC who from memory gave 4,5,6 reasons why this event may have occurred, any of which at the time of posting I accept may have been true. But, why speculate? (Btw, I have no personal problem as was inferred by someone with GC. I consider him a fair and balanced judge on most issues and was rightly imv crowned ‘Poster of the Year’ last year.)
On O’Regan, at no time did I either claim on here or actually believe myself that O’Regan’s actions resulted from a plot to lay the odds-on favour on the exchanges, or indeed any other form of corruption. However, not withstand this, it is my view that O’Regan nevertheless ‘Jumped’ but did so as a matter of personal expedience as imv had he not done so he would either have landed on top of the Hurdle or worse. So I’m not and never have questioned whether O’Regan had ‘no earthly chance of staying aboard’.
Clearly, I’m only an interested onlooker. I claim to have no specialist knowledge or skill when it comes to horseracing and could be and I’m indeed entirely happy to wrong on this.
Pompete
I think I owe you an apology for using your original post to illustrate the point.We discussed the point previously and on this occasion I plucked the example out of the air rather too quickly.
As a post it suited my story. As a reflection of the poster it was a little unfair to use it in this context.
Rob
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Racing Insider,
Correct, the bills need paying and if it means the cows have to come home for lunch then so be it.
Mr.Wilson
A few trainers in the Borders make more from their cows than they do from horses.
Rob
Racing Insider – your mind seems to be full of the 20’s into 6/4 winners that we see on the racecourse or the 40’s into 11’s and 28’s into 5’s. If what you say is correct then there’d be a gamble in every race and it would be landed every single time.
Denis O’Regan was accused of ‘jumping off’ Artless at Perth when the horse violently changed direction in mid-air over the first hurdle giving O’Regan no earthly chance of staying aboard.
Rob, as it me that made this claim allow me to place it in context. (I couldn’t be bothered at the time as some were becoming clearly hysterical)
The purpose of my post was to highlight the perceived speed at which racing journo’s appear to grub around looking for excuses. In this particular instance it was GC who from memory gave 4,5,6 reasons why this event may have occurred, any of which at the time of posting I accept may have been true. But, why speculate? (Btw, I have no personal problem as was inferred by someone with GC. I consider him a fair and balanced judge on most issues and was rightly imv crowned ‘Poster of the Year’ last year.)
On O’Regan, at no time did I either claim on here or actually believe myself that O’Regan’s actions resulted from a plot to lay the odds-on favour on the exchanges, or indeed any other form of corruption. However, not withstand this, it is my view that O’Regan nevertheless ‘Jumped’ but did so as a matter of personal expedience as imv had he not done so he would either have landed on top of the Hurdle or worse. So I’m not and never have questioned whether O’Regan had ‘no earthly chance of staying aboard’.
Clearly, I’m only an interested onlooker. I claim to have no specialist knowledge or skill when it comes to horseracing and could be and I’m indeed entirely happy to wrong on this.
The thread in question is https://theracingforum.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=73378&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0. Do all read it without prejudice and decide which interpretation(s) of the race you’re most comfortable with.
As I said in one post, I wasn’t actually on any work duty that night, so there was no compulsion for me to pronounce on the race as swiftly as I did. However, that I did was solely due to there being some – to my mind – pretty clear and plausible explanations both to O’Regan’s unseating and Hi Dancer’s win. Not excuses, nor pre-emptive attempts to limit any damage real or imagined, but explanations.
I didn’t have any axe to grind with your response to the race at the time, nor do I now. Mycenean Princess’s contributions to the piece, on the other hand….
gc
Adoptive father of two. The patron saint of lower-grade fare. A gently critical friend of point-to-pointing. Kindness is a political act.
GC, I am happy to clearly admit my original post was ‘made in haste, not supported by an coherant argument and chrulish’
But my beliefs as posted on this thread are true – where at the time and still are. The original post was not an attempt to highlight a ‘job done’. Neither, was it a personal attack on you. It was however in hindsight as I’ve mentioned churlish, juvenile and frankly as it stands unbecoming of TRF. In addition it is clear that the wording of my post is rightly open to misinterpretation. Or, to be precise an interpretation I never meant. I should of posted it on BF, but I couldn’t as I’m banned
I should of supported or explained (fully) my position at the time then it would clearly have led the debate in another direction.
I apolgise for bringing your name into it.
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