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4/5 to 15/8 is a pretty big drift in the context of the race. Questions need to be asked about why this phantom money hit the market (and where it came from) before an announcement was made to the betting public and betting industry.
Do questions really need to be asked though? Wasn’t a huge amount of money traded, most likely just stable lads in the know. This kind of thing will always be a problem when there’s betting exchanges around, although I’m not really sure that it is a problem.
The reality is, I doubt anybody lost a lot of money on this and nobody was ever going to. If this phantom money hadn’t come at all then we would have had no prior indication of Douvan’s imminent withdrawal until the very last minute.
Ante-post markets are dead, non issue in my opinion.
4/5 to 15/8 is a pretty big drift in the context of the race. Questions need to be asked about why this phantom money hit the market (and where it came from) before an announcement was made to the betting public and betting industry.
4/5 was too short to begin with so its not that big of a drift, it really isnt.
No UDS surely means he’s suffered a setback and won’t be going for the Hilly Way, I wonder will they throw Min in?
Youd think its more than likely douvan will miss both than uds, we will know shortly…
Ham what I mean is since UDS doesn’t go for the Tingle Creek, I assume Douvan has suffered a setback, not UDS. UDS full steam ahead for the Hilly Way I imagine.
With all the superstar horses they have for the 2 mile division it would be a real shame if we don’t see one of them in the Tingle Creek.
All it was, is he didnt think douvan had recovered enough from his work on tuesday, wasnt happy with him this morning, future targets uclear but wont be this weekend
As a punter who’s lost money I’ve absolutely no issue if that’s the reasoning ham…
Ricci did say that it was his primary target and that was still subject to work etc…
My issue would have been a switch between him and UDS after them strongly indicating Douvan was Sandown bound…
6 declared with Paddy Power.
Fox Norton, Politologue, San Benedeto, Ar Mad, Ordinary World, Sir Valentino
Charbel the final addition.
Do questions really need to be asked though? Wasn’t a huge amount of money traded, most likely just stable lads in the know. This kind of thing will always be a problem when there’s betting exchanges around, although I’m not really sure that it is a problem.
The reality is, I doubt anybody lost a lot of money on this and nobody was ever going to. If this phantom money hadn’t come at all then we would have had no prior indication of Douvan’s imminent withdrawal until the very last minute.
Ante-post markets are dead, non issue in my opinion.
Much more to it that a few pounds on the exchange – that’s the only visible sign that the public sees. Big questions to be asked about the integrity of Mullins and his stable at this point.
Do questions really need to be asked though? Wasn’t a huge amount of money traded, most likely just stable lads in the know. This kind of thing will always be a problem when there’s betting exchanges around, although I’m not really sure that it is a problem.
The reality is, I doubt anybody lost a lot of money on this and nobody was ever going to. If this phantom money hadn’t come at all then we would have had no prior indication of Douvan’s imminent withdrawal until the very last minute.
Ante-post markets are dead, non issue in my opinion.
Much more to it that a few pounds on the exchange – that’s the only visible sign that the public sees. Big questions to be asked about the integrity of Mullins and his stable at this point.
Care to elaborate on that LS, what is it that’s going on that public don’t see? You could be right, but I think everybody is jumping at shadows.
Mullins not being upfront with his plans, and phantom money being traded are two completely different things. As for the integrity of his yard, if he was really engaging in shady business, do you not think he’d be a bit less conspicuous about it? All these high profile debacles, its nearly likes he’s asking to be investigated.
Watch his interview with ATR after Mins’ win at Gowran, constantly stressing that his plans are open to change and that ante post punters should tread lightly. Doesn’t sound like a man trying to lure them in.
4/5 to 15/8 is a pretty big drift in the context of the race. Questions need to be asked about why this phantom money hit the market (and where it came from) before an announcement was made to the betting public and betting industry.
Do questions really need to be asked though? Wasn’t a huge amount of money traded, most likely just stable lads in the know. This kind of thing will always be a problem when there’s betting exchanges around, although I’m not really sure that it is a problem.
The reality is, I doubt anybody lost a lot of money on this and nobody was ever going to. If this phantom money hadn’t come at all then we would have had no prior indication of Douvan’s imminent withdrawal until the very last minute.
Ante-post markets are dead, non issue in my opinion.
Why does it matter if it’s stable lads or Willie Mullins himself? Laying horses they know won’t run is against the rules of racing whoever does it. Does not matter if it’s not “a huge amount of money”,
this type of thing keeps on happening with the same trainers horses, so the amount of money people are steeling from punters is adding up.They shouldn’t be hard to identify. Exchanges should do the number crunching, find out who keeps on laying these drifting non-runners, name and ban them.
“Non issue” in your opinion, that stable lads (or anyone else) could be supplimenting their income by £10,000+ a year by steeling from punters?
Value Is Everything4/5 to 15/8 is a pretty big drift in the context of the race. Questions need to be asked about why this phantom money hit the market (and where it came from) before an announcement was made to the betting public and betting industry.
Do questions really need to be asked though? Wasn’t a huge amount of money traded, most likely just stable lads in the know. This kind of thing will always be a problem when there’s betting exchanges around, although I’m not really sure that it is a problem.
The reality is, I doubt anybody lost a lot of money on this and nobody was ever going to. If this phantom money hadn’t come at all then we would have had no prior indication of Douvan’s imminent withdrawal until the very last minute.
Ante-post markets are dead, non issue in my opinion.
Why does it matter if it’s stable lads or Willie Mullins himself? Laying horses they know won’t run is against the rules of racing whoever does it. Does not matter if it’s not “a huge amount of money”,
this type of thing keeps on happening with the same trainers horses, so the amount of money people are steeling from punters is adding up.They shouldn’t be hard to identify. Exchanges should do the number crunching, find out who keeps on laying these non-runners, name and ban them.
Yes technically its against the rules, but by the very nature of betting exchanges its always going to happen. How can the exchanges differentiate between people in the know laying, and genuine layers who think the fav is poor value? One of those things that will never affect me, rarely ever affects anyone significantly, and causes very little harm in the grand scheme of things. Therefore not a big problem for me.
It’s all well and good for people to want racing to be squeaky clean and by the book, but its never going to be. People are entitled to campaign for as much, but again, not something I have an issue with.
Why does it matter if it’s stable lads or Willie Mullins himself? Laying horses they know won’t run is against the rules of racing whoever does it.
What does it matter if its a stable lad or Willie himself? Why, everything. If it’s a stable lad doing the laying, then punish him. If it’s Willie, vice versa. They are not automatically guilty by association.
Getting taken way way to far now….
If anyone listened to what willie mullins said on sunday then douvan should have eased at that point, he gave enough opportunity for people to listen, which clearly they havent and are still moaning
Talking about stable lads supplementing there income by 10k when no one actually knows who started drifting him is just utter nonsense
I was laying douvan yesterday, am i a stable lad? Am i on the inside?
Talking about the integrity of the yard- nonsense…..
What if a trainer, owner or somebody ‘in the know’ (especially somebody connected to a stable as cagey with the press as this one) was passing or selling this sort of sensitive information about intended targets or non-runners for a fee?
It would be very hard to trace the origin of that information as any betting accounts would ostensibly be unconnected with any particular stable.
Why does it matter if it’s stable lads or Willie Mullins himself? Laying horses they know won’t run is against the rules of racing whoever does it.
What does it matter if its a stable lad or Willie himself? Why, everything. If it’s a stable lad doing the laying, then punish him. If it’s Willie, vice versa. They are not automatically guilty by association.
I am saying it should not matter whether it’s stable lads or Mullins himself, it’s you who said it’s “most likely just stable lads in the know” and thought it was a “non-issue”.
You can not punish one particular lay and there is no guilt by association. But if someone is laying non-runner after non-runner after non-runner from the one stable and is associated with that stable… then something can be done.
Value Is EverythingI can’t believe some of you are so blasé about this. This isn’t right at all. Douvan’s non-participation in the Tingle Creek should NOT have been announced via a massive exchange drift and sudden rush of money for his main market rival.
I’m trying to think of other stables who do things properly and would suggest Paul Nicholls as the one of the best. He runs a tight ship. For example, there was not even a wobble on Betfair before he announced Movewiththetimes would miss last season’s Cheltenham Festival.
I can’t believe some of you are so blasé about this.
Ditto LS, wonder what it would’ve been like if we were talking bookmakers fleecing punters?
Value Is EverythingThe point is, as Ham was saying this is being blown way out of proportion with the usual tinfoil hat talk.
Douvan was making his reappearance after a long injury lay-off. He had three options this weekend, one of them being the highly completive Tingle Creek against race fit Championship horses. Mullins always plays his cards close to his chest and under the circumstances was always going to be play them closer than ever. As Ham has alluded to many times, he even said as much in interviews, stressing that ante post punters should tread carefully.
If Douvan was going to take his chance in the Tingle Creek then he would need to be absolutely sparkling in his work at home. Evidently he didn’t, people in the yard knew, layed accordingly, causing the ripples in the market that were so heavily scrutinised.
Of course there could be other explanations, but I would highly doubt it. If this seems dodgy or underhanded to you, then I suppose you are just one of those people that look at everything that way. No its not by book, but not a huge issue in the grand scheme of things. Asking ‘questions’ would yield results of little substance. That is my attitude, baffling or not.
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