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TR is a dual grade 2 winner over hurdles and mixed it with the likes of both Hurricane Fly & Faugheen in his time and it is from that perspective that I made the comment about better natural talent/versatility although I must say had it been around at the time the thought of Red Rum tackling a Cross Country race would have been most intriguing.
For me Rummy is (and it is not even remotely close) the far the more durable/tougher horse (but then the better class horses for the most part these days are wrapped up in cotton wool and run maybe 4-5 times a year if that) especially when you consider he did the Aintree/Ayr National double both under top weight and ran in 5 straight Nationals which amounts to over 22 miles and jumping 150 of the most fearsome version of the fences. O’Leary threw his toys out of the pram about TR going up 6lbs from his first to second win so just imagine what he would have said had he gone up 23 lbs like Rummy when he did the double!
Not saying you don’t need stamina to win the National these days but with the fences made considerably easier than they were in Rummy’s day and the distance shortened and the weights being reduced it attracts more of the graded staying type chasers who tend to be a bit quicker rather than being those out & out staying types. Unless the ground came up very testing I think horse like Rummy, Aldaniti, Corbiere, Rubstic, West Tip etc would likely struggle to get in the first four of the race under todays conditions.
I expect the whingeing is in aid of keeping the marks of next year’s Giggi National horses, and possibly some of this year’s Cheltenham handicap horses, at an optimal level. In a “squeaky wheel gets the grease” way.
These owners think the biased English handicapper/s is/are putting their horses up unfairly. After all… Gigginstown have only won three of the last four Grand Nationals.
On last year’s winning distances Tiger Roll was always going to be given something between 169 and 172. Could’ve been worse… And even now the dual Grand National winner could be well handicapped!
Like the year before, jumping the last fence looked likely to win by further than the 2 3/4 margin. Although true, some will naturally find more than others up the run-in; doesn’t mean one that travels well is neccessarily any better than one pushed along some way out who finds plenty for pressure. However; also possible (and in TR’s case imo probable) the horse idled quite badly. Having quite a bit more in hand than distances back to second and third. Idling is a trait in many a prolific handicapper because it’s harder for the assessor to get the horse’s measure.
imo Tiger Roll could prove fairly well handicapped if all is well with him.
Handicappers very rarely take idling in to account… Especially when owners are likely to jump out of their prams whenever their horse gets a lb more than they (publicly at least) believe it should. My guess is the O’Leary’s are inwardly delighted with Tiger Roll’s mark.
Value Is EverythingLovely prep run for Cheltenham
Absolutely tanked along
With a clear round a third cross country is his
Ah, he would be looking for a gift if thought he was entitled to less weight. The handicapper seems quite kind to Native River though.
I see your point on the Idling. Ive looked at it a few times and Im thinking maybe he barely stays the distance. Im basing this purely on how he runs in other races though.
Overall, I took him on last year and then realised on the day that the opposition had a lot of question marks about them. He really did improve last year and its a lot to ask for more this year.
It makes for interesting betting though. He will I assume carry the housewives money which means he will go off shorter than serious gamblers would look at?
SHL
Agreed; I’ll be very interested in Native River if turning up on the day, SHL.
Got to remember though, times have changed. Grand National is even less of a lottery than it once wasn’t… Nowadays very few housewives left and betting driven by a market other than bookmakers; a market full of punters believing they know right. Tiger Roll may be under-estimated again and be a price us serious gamblers/investors are again interested in… on the machine.
Value Is EverythingBack out tomorrow on the level at Navan, in the 1615.
Be good to see him back, even if not where I expected.
For a horse that always tanks through his races that was very strange
Never travelled at all
Eddie O’Leary talking possible retirement in one breath, then urging a reduction in a “ridiculous” handicap rating in the next. Hmmmmm………
BUY THE SUN
Hard luck Eddie you don’t get your handicap mark dropped if your unsound or unwell horse (not that they knew that) just makes it part way round a kids’ obstacle course then pulls up. I like the XC races but the handicapper is right to view them with caution due to their unique nature….or does O’Leary think that the 11yo Kingswell Theatre has suddenly improved by 30lb?
Tiger Roll got his mark not by winning 2 XC races, but by winning the Grand National twice. Yesterday he was sitting on the same rating as Lostintranslation. Silly hey? But the handicapper can only go on what he’s shown. If a fit, well Tiger Roll ran over 3 miles jumping regulation fences at levels against a fit, well LiT he’d get thrashed. If they ran at levels 4 miles round the spruce LiT would have to be carried home the last half mile in a horsebox whilst Tiger was tucking into his oats.
You don’t get to hide away from the handicapper for 3 years over hurdles and XC fences and waddling round the back on the Flat when it suits to keep your mark from moving up too much, but then whinge when he won’t drop your mark back down half a stone for one not-great run and one run and wasn’t even a proper run at all.
That would be as ridiculous as if, say, Al Boum had an off day on his annual Tramore outing and got beaten and Willie immediately started crying that he wanted the mark knocked right back down so he could run him in a handicap.
OK Tiger is probably not as good as he used to be- and thus should probably be retired as there’s nowhere else for him to go, unless he can be got fit and well enough to have a good go at the festival XC again, if they want. But if they want to do the GN again, they need to prove his mark needs dropped and so need to put on their big boy pants, get him fit and well and and run him in a couple of proper chases against proper horses, like most of the other Grand National horses will do this year.
But it’s not really about Tiger’s mark is it? Same as last time, it’s whingeing to get the other Giggi horses special treatment. How tiresome. Bet the ‘capper has a pair of ear plugs on his Christmas list.
Bravo greenasgrass, you put what I was thinking down in much clearer language than I could have!
Afterall, it’ snot like Giggs’ don’t know how to get an old chaser’s mark down by getting it pulled up in a couple of those 25-runner chases they have!! Pop him in one of those, trundle round the back and say he’s ‘in need of the run’ – bingo!
To be fair its not just gigginstown who do that , tiger roll got the only hcap mark he could , with it he has to improve again to win …something at his stage in his career will be near impossible , however we know he loves the place and is almost guaranteed to jump round , personally if he can get in the first 5 it’s a huge achievement
Pick 3 on Saturday champion 2025/2026
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