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That Guardian article seems a good summary to me.
I don’t think anyone is saying that people need the monarchy in order to connect with their own past or indeed the wider concept of “history”. However, it is still an evocative means of doing so for many.
I think a lot of people find the Royal Family’s long existence and all the historical pageant around them comforting, even if when they take a step back they can’t explain it very rationally. I would emphasise I am not saying such people are stupid or misguided either.
Beware anyone declaring themselves an expert in anything.
Apart from me, that is (obviously).
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"There is The Queue, and then there is The Queue Consort, less popular, hangs around the back and hope nobody mentions Diana.
The servility mystifies me.I see it’s now all devolved into bickering about which “celebrities” (loathsome word and concept) queued and which queue-jumped.
This is the state of the human race in 2022 – a mass morbid fixation about a deceased person they never knew and a row about who got to walk past their corpse first.
The death of the ultimate “TV celebrity” and distasteful debate about the equally distasteful jostling among minor living celebrities to be seen in the vicinity of them first.
All the future shock movies from the 1980s to modern times, from The Running Man through to The Hunger Games genre, pale into insignificance compared to the horrific actual reality we now face.
For sure, television has a lot to answer for.
Not one of us knew her, TV might have made the more impressionable among us feel we did, but we didn’t.
She was 96, public service not withstanding she had a great life, but she’s sadly died, same as so many have sadly done since her death and will sadly continue to do so.
Regarding any human being as more important than any other human being – including yourself – is deeply unhealthy on so many levels yet is an affliction that clearly strikes so many millions.
If only people cared as much about the things that really matter on this planet, world peace, ensuring a tolerable minimum quality of life for everyone, and preserving the very planet itself.
Roll….on….TUESDAY.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"‘I see it’s now all devolved into bickering about which “celebrities” (loathsome word and concept) queued and which queue-jumped.’
As someone far witter than I pointed out, they are complaining about the concept of wealthy and powerful people receiving preferential treatment…
‘If only people cared as much about the things that really matter on this planet, world peace, ensuring a tolerable minimum quality of life for everyone, and preserving the very planet itself.’
I can only echo that.
Does anyone have any faith about a government of the future, if it’s anything like the current one, turning this country into a republic without making sure that their benefactors don’t do well out of it? Jacinda Ardern said yesterday that a there would’ve a natural progression towards republicanism. She was, of course, talking about NZ, but I would think it makes sense here. But I would like to think it would happen over a long period of time and would be thought through very carefully.
Wow, the winds of change are seriously blowing through here. I thought the
serious question about what happens after the Queen has died would probably
only be adressed once all the pomp and pageantry had died away, but here we
are.The queen, whatever anyone thinks about her, did her “job” if you can class
it at such and most certainly did it well, or to the best of her ability right
up to her passing. She deserves respect for that and I give it.The Scottish question might come up now, but I think this is going to be much
broader than that. The Royal family, is well and truly tarnished. A king who
married a girl he didn’t love and carried on an affair with the woman he did.
The question about Diana and perhaps even for some the truth behind her death.
The King’s son (Harry) leaving his Royal role with stories of bullying and racist
behaviour towards his wife (true or otherwise) Mehgan. Prince Andrew, removed from
Royal Duties, with his connection with the now deceased paedophile Jeffrey Epstein.The Queen was the one thing that was constant in the Royal Family and the glue that
held everything together. Protests from Scotland and Wales are almost certainly going
to become more vociferous. Countries who remained in the commonwealth I believe will
question whether they should remain under the rule of the King, or go their own way.
New Zealand has already stated it’s intention to become independant. This could be
like a snowball rolling down a hill.Times have changed, and the question of why we should be under the rule of a person,
just because that person is the son of the previous ruler has to, and is being asked.
We have been responsible for countless deaths and cleared out countries like it was
Black Friday to enhance our once Empire. Some may say that things have changed and some
efforts have been made to acccept the mistakes that have been made and some steps have
been made to put to rights some of those mistakes. Perhaps so, but what we are left with
now is a family that is hard to understand why they are Royal and above the common man or
woman.I think that after a “honeymoon” period, perhaps even years, that pressure will grow both
here and abroad. The question will be raised, In the 21st century do we need a Royal Family,
can we afford one?‘Wow, the winds of change are seriously blowing through here. I thought the
serious question about what happens after the Queen has died would probably
only be adressed once all the pomp and pageantry had died away, but here we
are.’In the vast majority of the print and broadcast media, yes. Complete deference and mourning are the only games in town. Thankfully we can speak more freely here and this thread is far more interesting than most of what the media has to say.
Good Post Big G, full of valid points 👍
Cracking post from BigG in my view also.
I’m not quite sure what to make of the media and public reaction to all this.
We’ve already discussed the media reaction and while the centre right print media – specifically the Mail – was predictable to me, the reaction of the centre-left Guardian and the Independent/I was less so, and in broadcasting the BBC are definitely “taking a view.”
Are they mirroring public sentiment though?
The queue to walk past a coffin would suggest the BBC has it spot on, there is still a lot of affection for the Royal Family for whatever reason.
But whether it’s the majority view I remain sceptical about.
68 million people in this country, it’s actually a tiny, but very vocal, passionate, minority hogging the media limelight this past week.
There are a Hell of a lot of people NOT making trips to London to stand in queues and NOT giving great public displays of mourning and talking about what it all means to them.
This is very much a honeymoon period for Charles III and the monarchy itself.
He will never be more apparently popular than he is now.
When the dust settles, the debate on the future of the monarchy will resurface.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Ian said – When the dust settles, the debate on the future of the monarchy will resurface.
Cant recall much of a debate really in the past, but could that be because there’s been no media platform for it bar on SM?
There’s a facebook site called Down With The Crown (i’m not on facebook but my wife told me about it yday). Popped in there last night, as it is ‘open’, and it is the same old stuff about privilege, inheriting, etc with loads of brainless insulting comments. In fact, it is probably an embarrassment to any committed, intelligent Republican.
Guess the Guardian will run a few articles but as its readership runs into 00s these days only the Dinner tables of a few academics will likely discuss.The problem is that the equivalent will inevitably be a political appointment (so one of the Tories’ cronies) or one based on popularity.
President Kylie, anyone?
“Cant recall much of a debate really in the past,”
I really wouldn’t underestimate the monarchy-preserving impact of arguably the most popular incumbent of all time.
I’m an abolitionist (though hardly an active one), but I struggled to find a bad word to say about Elizabeth II.
Yes, she had obscene wealth she never earned, but she devoted her entire life to public service and I’d say she was a far better global ambassador/brand for Britain than any PM of any Party we’ve had during her reign – or ever, Churchill included.
I’ve never heard anyone have a bad word to say about her personally, not even the most rabid abolitionists.
Charles III has some engaging qualities, he cares about the planet, he’s quite self-effacing and self-deprecating even about his own intellect.
But he’s nowhere near as popular as his mother – not even in the same county, never mind parish.
And public views are mixed on both of his sons, though tbf I’ve never heard outright animosity against either of them.
As for the King’s brother – enough said.
Charles III starts off with plenty of goodwill, but BigG itemises the historical baggage he carries and “events,” dear boy, “events” – there are always “events.”
Let’s see what transpires.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I attended the lying in state yesterday morning. It was a beautiful, sombre and dignified occasion.
Before anyone asks, I did not queue through the night. I have health conditions which entitled me to use the accessibility queue which started at Tate Britain. I waited two and a half hours on Friday morning and obtained a timed ticket for entry to Westminster Hall between 8am and 9am yesterday. I had another wait of half an hour, so it was three hours of waiting in total.
When I was there, I had the feeling it is not just the Queen being buried but the idea of monarchy as well. I doubt it can survive in our modern age.
Despite being perhaps the most filmed and photographed individual in history, Queen Elizabeth II managed to remain unknown to a large extent. No one outside her inner circle knew what she was really like. I believe that mystery is essential for the British version of monarchy to work.
In an age of multi media and instant access to information, I doubt anyone could ever be the same or even similar to the late Queen. We know far too much about King Charles III, through his meddling in areas where he has no business (and despite his pledge in his recent speech he clearly has no intention of stopping). We also know far too many sordid details about him, which we would be much better off not knowing. I do not see how he can ever command the respect and affection his late mother did.
I cannot see William being much better. His lectures on climate change while he flies around in private jets is hypocritical and irritating. His whining about other issues does not impress either.
The Queen’s great achievement – The Commonwealth – will surely unravel without her. There is also a chance the UK itself will unravel as well. Northern Ireland will inevitably leave the Union one day and Scotland may not be far behind. The Queen’s heirs could be monarchs of a vastly reduced realm, which would raise further questions about their future.
Most of the mourners in the queue have looked middle aged to older. I doubt young people will continue to support a monarchy. As I said earlier, it will not disappear overnight but the institution’s opponents will feel emboldened now that its chief asset has gone. They were astute enough to realise there was little mileage in attacking the Queen. I doubt they will be so reticent towards King Charles III.
Brilliant, simply brilliant, insightful post from CAS, I think.
Funnily enough, I just watched a brief clip on Twitter of David Beckham (I thought he was very dignified actually) paying his respects and, as I’ve not had the telly on in a week, it gave me a feel for what it’s all about, a feel that CAS has now greatly expanded upon.
CAS articulates the gaping chasm in quality and concomitant popularity between she who has now departed, he who has replaced her, and he who is theoretically next to come.
I really wouldn’t take the latter for granted.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
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