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Sorry Bos, but I think you may be missing the point. A debate on his relative merit with Exotic Dancer is now redundant. He couldnt beat Snoopy Loopy and Tamarinbleu off level weights.
A bit of retro-fitting of the facts to compile a ‘poor’ ride from Thomas also. He was all over the leader at the 2nd last and not his old self from there.
Big questions now for the old warrior.Why the criticism of Sam Thomas again? Totally unjustified. Had Kauto stood up he’d have run to a mark of early 160’s that’s over half a stone below his best does Ruby really make that much difference to the horse? Of course he doesn’t. I can’t see what Sam did wrong.
I agree Bos. With Ruby on board it could have been different. I’m still gutted though
well Aragorn you know how big afan I am but you have to call a spade a spade.
I had my doubts when I started this thread but for me that put a long nail in the coffin.
I was adamant all along he hasn’t been the same horse for a long time. Even at Ascot if you care to look back at my post I said how dissapointed I was then. I read brilliant but my eyes told me different.
It’s no consolation but surely all will agree there is something very wromg with the horse, His fans me included say he wasn’t himself at Cheltenham or Aintree but others refer back to his Gold Cup win and say he was…….they seem to forget he showed everyone in the King George not only that he had improved but that performance put him on a pedestal all on his own……Then somehow we got to here.
PN said he was in the best form of his life……..that’s a load of bollocks for a start,,enuff said!!,,,,,,I can’t critisise the man for not doing his job I am sure Kauto will have seen all sorts of experts but whatever is wrong is nothing the can put their finer on…….he’s obvioslu feelng something but what?
Snoopy Loopy,,,,,well done but Kauto would have given him 1/2 a ton and beat him………whether he would have won today or not don’t mean sh+t he’s gone and until they fix the problem he wont be winning anything.
Sad but I think everyone has to accept that for the time being
Sorry Bos, but I think you may be missing the point. A debate on his relative merit with Exotic Dancer is now redundant. He couldnt beat Snoopy Loopy and Tamarinbleu off level weights.
A bit of retro-fitting of the facts to compile a ‘poor’ ride from Thomas also. He was all over the leader at the 2nd last and not his old self from there.
Big questions now for the old warrior.You’re entitled to your opinion, Shab’s, but I think Sam misjudged the horse under him in relation to the conditions. To let a high class two miler, who’s won over the distance, have an easy lead is a huge error of judgment.
To take the horse up the inner, then back out to the centre of the track after a mistake (that could’ve been avoided) was another huge error. As previously stated, Kauto is prone to banking fences when challenging up the inner – Sam should’ve kept him in the centre turning for home and asked for his effort.
I mentioned before the race that Ruby and Kauto have a special bond and there’s every reason to believe the result would’ve been different with Mr. Walsh in the saddle.
Ok Bos, some fair points. Ruby is a better jock then Sam, no doubt. But how are mistakes ‘avoidable’ with Kauto. He has always been a law to himself in that regard. Its Russian roulette sometimes.
Ok Bos, some fair points. Ruby is a better jock then Sam, no doubt. But how are mistakes ‘avoidable’ with Kauto. He has always been a law to himself in that regard. Its Russian roulette sometimes.
Looking at his history, if you’re given the opportunity you don’t challenge up the inner with him.
If he was positioned in the centre of the track and didn’t make that mistake (hypothetical, my apologies) he wouldn’t have lost any momentum / confidence.
It may or may not have changed the result, but ST didn’t do himself any favours.
Didnt he make two very big blunders when wide at the 4th last and last in his first KG?
That’s one odds on shot that won today.
It was odds on Bos that after Kauto Star lost today, you’d come on and say it was Sam’s fault. You had to after what was said earlier on in this thread.
So what you are saying is:
Sam rode him wrong by making his move too soon last year. I don’t remember it anywhere near 5 out but do not have a video. (Of course had he done so the mistake at the last that day may have lost him the race).
This time he did not get there soon enough (despite cruising up to Tamarinbleu 2 1/2 out, may be it was a mistake but did it make a difference?)
And we are supposed to believe it made so much difference at what spot he took the fence. (As in not the inside, despite the unseated rider being in the centre of the fence).
I give you some credit Bos, you did tell me what your excuse was going to be before the race. Mystic Meg would be proud.
Mark
Value Is EverythingThat’s one odds on shot that won today.
It was odds on Bos that after Kauto Star lost today, you’d come on and say it was Sam’s fault. You had to after what was said earlier on in this thread.
So what you are saying is:
Sam rode him wrong by making his move too soon last year. I don’t remember it anywhere near 5 out but do not have a video. (Of course had he done so the mistake at the last may have lost him the race).
This time he did not get there soon enough (despite cruising up to Tamarinbleu 2 1/2 out).
And we are supposed to believe it made so much difference at what spot he took the fence. (As in not the inside, despite the unseated rider being in the centre of the fence).
I give you some credit Bos, you did tell me what your excuse was going to be before the race. Mystic Meg would be proud.
Mark
I knew my mind wasn’t playing tricks, Ginge.
From RP online. Betfair Chase 2007.
disputed 2nd until not fluent 5th, not fluent again 6th, led with big jump 12th (of 16), not fluent last, soon ridden, kept on under pressure when pressed towards finish
As I said before, Ginge, Kauto got there too soon last year given the conditions.
You have to adjust to the circumstances of a race and the fact is that Sam allowed a high class two miler an easy lead. As I mentioned in the GC thread, the fancied runners were beaten in a six runner race where the first three home were seperated by less than three lengths.
Shabby, the KG is on a right-handed track and Kauto has banked fences on a left-handed track when challenging up the inner.
Ginge, Kauto has proved before that he is a confidence jumper and there’s no doubt that the mistake at the third last took a lot out of him, mentally and phsically.
The fact is that the only reservation I had about Kauto’s chance today may have affected the outcome. It was more about Ruby missing from the saddle, not an attack on Sam Thomas.
I’m not psychic, Ginge, just a damn good reader of the game.
I’ve just re watched the race and still can’t work out exactly what happened at the third last….it looked far worse seeing it the second time round…
Bos,
If you are in the centre of the fence, you are in the same spot, whether it is a right or left handed course. And the fences are on the straight not the turn. I can see it might make a difference if the fence is soon after the turn. Being on the wrong leg. But half way up the straight?
Kauto made a mistake, like he is prone to do in the final straight, whether on a right handed or left handed course, on the inner or centre. This time it made the difference. I wonder if the horse is put off sometimes by the roar of the crowd. Ear plugs next time!??
Mark
Value Is EverythingSnoopy Loopy was definitely not a 50-1 shot on the morning line on the form shown this autumn.
Can anyone explain to me how that price happened?
I put £1.10 on him this morning, not impressive I know, but I celebrated like I’d won the World Cup when Kauto went down and Snoopy came from nowhere
Cant understand why people are being so critical of Sam Thomas,he gave the horse every chance to win,cant make my mind up though if he would have won if he had stayed on his feet(Did look like a tired horse going down to the flight)
Hope hes ok as there are still heeps of good races for hime to win,and we might get a backable price for him now.
- Total Posts 17716
Bosranic
The "high class specialist 2 miler that Kauto Star gave an easy lead" has a best RPR of 170 over that distance, KS has one of 179!
No matter what kind of spin you try to put on it, KS is not the same horse he was before last season’s Gold Cup. In that race he was being ridden at halfway (Against out-and-out stayers, after less than 2m, which he had proven so good at previously) . In his 2 proper races since he has made jumping errors he previously shrugged off easily, and been beaten by horses rated 10lb/12lb/ & 22lb inferior.
The horse has a problem – just how much evidence do you need?- Total Posts 17716
So a Gold Cup winner falling is worth cheering is it, halfwaytoheaven?
Did you, by any chance, put Snoopy Loopy up on this thread (I haven’t read through all of it to check) or is it an easy 33/1 shot – or indeed 50/1 shot – to put up after it’s won?
Dont know if it is just my opinion, but his jumping has never been ‘brilliant’, so i have always expected him to either fall, or get rid of his jockey again, and to his credit, it has come a lot of races after i expected it, but the nagging doubt still remained.
Dont forget that Ruby has been on-board when Kauto Star has fallen or has made mistakes and to be honest, i have thought in the past that Ruby often doesnt give horses the greatest assistance at times.
He drops his hands at times, and ends up doing nothing, he did it when Tidal Bay clouted the last at Doncaster last season and he has done it with Kauto Star (in the Aon Chase when he was ran close by L’Ami). It confuses some horses, who need to be told how to jump, rather than just letting them make their own mind up.
Sam Thomas did nothing wrong in my opinion and Kauto Star was beaten, i dont think he would have quickened up to get to Tamarinbleu in my opinion.
So a Gold Cup winner falling is worth cheering is it, halfwaytoheaven?
Did you, by any chance, put Snoopy Loopy up on this thread (I haven’t read through all of it to check) or is it an easy 33/1 shot – or indeed 50/1 shot – to put up after it’s won?
Would you like me to paste my online betting slip, Equi? I’ve never once lied about a bet I’ve placed and have been more than happy to prove so in the past.
I’m at a loss at to why me cheering my selection winning is not worth cheering considering it was very unexpected and it’s actually given me a bit of free cash for the weekend. Gold Cup winner or no Gold Cup winner, I know how good Kauto is – I cant see how I can be blammed for celebrating my smalltime winner
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