The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Supreme Novices hurdle 2022

Home Forums Archive Topics Cheltenham Archive Cheltenham 2022 Supreme Novices hurdle 2022

Viewing 17 posts - 341 through 357 (of 378 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1587427
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6018

    I can see the angle on Jonbon being a spoiler , while Henderson kept saying he couldn’t split them he must have known CH would have to many gears , DD falling may add the question mark regarding the form but then look at where Kilcruit is ? , CH is in my eyes an above average supreme winner , if CH and Honeysuckle both go to the champion next gear she,ll be 9 , some of her zip we,ll be going , she,ll need to try and out stay him but he travels so well , yesterday was near training in public , he jumped the last as if trotting round seven barrows

    #1587434
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 9017

    Surprised anyone is being even mildly critical of the form. It was one of the very best performances I have ever seen at Cheltenham.

    I have no doubt that Jonbon is well above average. He has been beaten by 22 lengths. The horses behind had fair form and they could not go the pace from the start.

    I can fully understand why the Henderson team went down the novice route, given the horse’s lack of experience. However, if he had run in the Champion Hurdle I have no doubt he would have won it. His time was far faster than Honeysuckle. She was all out to beat Epatante by 3 1/2 lengths and the runner up would have been closer but for stumbling after the last.

    I am fairly sure Henderson knows that Constitution Hill is superior to Epatante than a lot more than three lengths.

    #1587436
    Avatar photoHe Didnt Like Ground
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6018

    The hint was there when he destroyed might I , lol all with woe with the Irish wining everything …. all the while the best hurdler and chaser safely tucked at seven barrows

    #1587443
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7792

    CAS my post covers the winning distance, time, and Honeysuckle’s race.

    #1587445
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4749

    My (admittedly very amateur) hand timing from the replays has Constitution Hill covering from the second last to the line over a second faster than Honeysuckle and also a bit quicker than the flat-out Brazil in the juvenile handicap. Considering that they had gone fastest in the Supreme Novices, that is some finishing effort- and he was hardly ridden out.

    It must be borne in mind that Brazil carried 11st 9; Constitution Hill carried 11st 7 and the mare 11-3, so the juvenile form looks very decent as well.

    #1587458
    GM23
    Participant
    • Total Posts 544

    Possibly the greatest performance I’ve ever seen from a novice hurdler.

    The time was spectacular, breaking the course record in just his 3rd run over hurdles. I love Honeysuckle, she’s an absolute legend of a mare but she won’t stand a chance against this machine. The most unbelievable thing about Constitution Hill’s performance today is that even after an absolute break neck gallop, he still managed to come up the hill faster than Honeysuckle and he did it at a canter.
    Timeform has now given Constitution Hill the highest rating of all time for a novice hurdler in their 74 year history, 1lb above Golden Cygnet. He’s now the joint 7th highest rated hurdler of all time with them and he’s achieved that with only 3 races behind him.
    The great man himself, Ruby Walsh, stated last night that he’d seen a lot of fantastic winners of the race and ridden a lot of top horses in the race himself including Vautour and Douvan yet had never seen anything quite like what he’d just witnessed in Constitution Hill.
    I just pray that he stays sound. If so, he won’t be beaten in a true run race for the next 3 to 4 years. He’ll be the greatest since Istabraq.

    #1587468
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33110

    Spot on GM. :good:

    EDIT:
    Well almost spot on.
    He will be better than Istabraq. :yes:

    Value Is Everything
    #1587470
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4749

    He’s already better than Istabraq, who was laughably overrated. Kept beating rubbish.

    #1587475
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33110

    It’s possible Istabraq was over-rated Glad, yes a lot he beat were second raters but there were one or two good horses and did beat the “rubbish” easily and by a very long way.

    Value Is Everything
    #1587477
    Avatar photoThe Tatling Cheekily
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 2723

    I was dead against ‘Mudlark Bully’ Constitution Hill. That went well.

    BUY THE SUN

    #1587482
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33110

    Suspect the reason why Connections are thinking of going to Ireland is to prove the horse not only 2022’s best novice hurdler but – in beating Honeysuckle – Constitution Hill will prove he’s 2022’s best hurdler full stop.

    Possible he goes chasing after proving himself the best hurdler, but when you’ve got one that – if kept hurdling – may well prove himself the best hurdler of all time… Why go chasing (at least not yet)?

    Timeform’s 177 is the best rating ever given to a novice hurdler and the “p” means a better rating is likely to come his way. Making 6 lbs improvement from novice to second season is quite normal for “p” horses and that would put him above Night Nurse – Timeform’s best ever hurdler.

    Am not usually one for writing such things, I’ll whisper it quietly… It is possible we witnessed the beginnings of Hurdling’s Frankel / Arkle yesterday. :yes:

    Value Is Everything
    #1587483
    Mike007
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7792

    Timeform are cr*p anyway. ;o)

    #1587490
    Avatar photoGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 33110

    “Timeform are cr*p anyway”.

    …And yet those of us who are / have been Timeform subscribers, many make good profits. Funny that.

    Some will never understand race times and sectionals.

    Value Is Everything
    #1587491
    GM23
    Participant
    • Total Posts 544

    Gladiateur

    Istabraq was a phenomenal horse.

    He held the course record for 14 years and up until 2014 was one of only two horses in history to go under 3m:50s. Istabraq did it twice.

    Constitution Hill could end up better, possibly the greatest but as Willie Mullins said ” A good horse is a sound horse”. That will be the key to where CH ends up in the all time great list.

    I will say this. Nicky Henderson is the best man for the job. He’ll give this horse every chance to have a long and great career.

    #1587493
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4749

    GM- course records mean nothing more than quick ground and a strong pace. Ribchester holds (I think he still holds it, anyway) the record over Ascot’s straight mile, so he must be better than Frankel. Right?

    Istabraq was a very good horse and clearly superior to his contemporaries but Timeform have him joint-second in their all-time hurdler ratings, which is just nonsense.

    #1587510
    GM23
    Participant
    • Total Posts 544

    Glad,

    I agree with you that times aren’t everything especially on the flat where they don’t water unless it’s rock hard.

    Cheltenham though for a long time now has tried to maintain good to soft always for the opening day. Yes it can be slightly quicker or slower some years but I believe times can be taken note of within reason.

    Comparing Honeysuckle to Appreciate it last year. I timed various parts of the race and came to the conclusion that Appreciate had no chance of beating her and that turned out to be the case.
    Appreciate looked great last year but the time was nothing special and as it turned out, neither were his opponents.

    Back to Istabraq
    He won 23 of 26 completed races over hurdles. Won 3 champion hurdles breaking the course record in the process and would have been the first to win 4 if it hadn’t been for foot and mouth. Also won the RSA hurdle and Aintree hurdle over 2 1/2 mile.
    He had it all and I really can’t see how he can be overrated.

    #1587539
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4749

    As I said, he was clearly a very good horse and far better than his opposition at the time. I simply don’t think he’s the second-best hurdler of the last fifty years, fine horse that he undoubtedly was.

    We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one. 😎

Viewing 17 posts - 341 through 357 (of 378 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.