- This topic has 135 replies, 40 voices, and was last updated 14 years, 10 months ago by
.
- Posts
- Total Posts 17716
Frankel ran 5f out.
Ran the 3rd last Furlong 11.8 sec
Ran 2nd Last Furlong 12.5 Sec
Ran the Final Furlong in 14 secImagine running the 3rd furlong in a sprint according to Terry Norman.
It was a terrible ride the horse is much better than that. Shocking stuff he ran the guts out of him, no horse could have kept that going.
Ran 8l slower in the final Furlong…The times do not lie. Terrible Terrible Ride
Ermmm…… if I recall correctly, Dave Edwards timed his Guinea’s run as furlongs 2 to 5
all
being run in 11.5 secs or less, with a number of pundits raving how much he’d improve for being settled better early?
Considering Frankel went for home well over 4 furlongs out (against opposition who’re now more wiser than the ones in the 2000 Guineas), I think he did fine to hang onto his lead and still win! Admittedly, when I saw Frankel settled in behind the leaders and travelling nicely, I was expecting Mr Queally to sustain that until 2 furlongs out and then delivering his challenge … but it wasn’t to be.
Really guys, name another miler who’d have gone for home over 4 furlongs out and still won?
I’m still adamant that Frankel will get better ridden with a lot more restraint and I can’t see any of the horses he’s already beaten ever reversing the form with him. I found myself agreeing with what Willie Carson was talking about after the race.
Dubawi Gold was beaten further than the Guineas this time and this years Guineas takeaway Frankel, the Guineas was a crap renewal , Frankel actually ran a slow time in the Guineas for g to f, with Makfi, Sea The Stars and George Washington all setting faster times. If Zoffany was match fit in the Guineas I hardly doubt the margin would be 6 lengths if Zoffany had contested.
But his win today at Ascot timewise set him on a standard of recent winners like, Mastercraftsman and Canford Cliffs but not greater than that.
While Frankel is in the top bracket for G1 horses I cant have him in the Sea The Stars or Zarkava league just yet he has a long way to go to say he is better than Sea The Stars is laughable.
Heartily agree with the ghost.Some horse to be able to hang on after being asked for his effort when he was.Most jockeys would have lost that race if it was not for the horse!
Dubawi Gold was beaten further than the Guineas this time and this years Guineas takeaway Frankel, the Guineas was a crap renewal , Frankel actually ran a slow time in the Guineas for g to f, with Makfi, Sea The Stars and George Washington all setting faster times. If Zoffany was match fit in the Guineas I hardly doubt the margin would be 6 lengths if Zoffany had contested.
But his win today at Ascot timewise set him on a standard of recent winners like, Mastercraftsman and Canford Cliffs but not greater than that.
While Frankel is in the top bracket for G1 horses I cant have him in the Sea The Stars or Zarkava league just yet he has a long way to go to say he is better than Sea The Stars is laughable.
Anyone want to remind this poster that he was running into a fierce headwind? No I cant be bothered either.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Having had a night to sleep on it a couple of things have occured to me.
Tom Queally said he had not sat on Frankel since the Guineas. Is this not a bit odd? I know that Shane Featherborough does a great job in getting the horse settled at home but surely it would make sense for the guy who rides him in his races to partner him in at least a gallop or two? Perhaps if he had he would have had more confidence in the horses ability to settle and might have held on to the horse a little while longer.
As far as I know from reading gallops reports for many years, most very good horses are ridden by their regular jockeys in their work. Strikes me as strange that’s all.
Secondly I think TQ’s riding at the moment is a hangover from the Dubai World Cup. Sir Henry has spoken many times about the fact that he has no time for his jockeys if they come off a beaten horse complaining about the lack of pace in a race. He is always adamant that, if the pace of a race is insufficient for one of his horses, the jockey should take more of the initiative. In the WC, for a second year running, Twice Over was beaten in a slow run tactical affair and I am sure words were exchanged after.
Since then we have seen both Midday and Frankel sent on a long way from home and fading in the last furlong. Clearly TQ thought that they would both maintain their gallops to the line as both have done before, but even so I think he may be a bit muddled at the moment. He looked very sheepish in the interview after the race – in fact you would almost think that he had lost!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Dubawi Gold was beaten further than the Guineas this time and this years Guineas takeaway Frankel, the Guineas was a crap renewal , Frankel actually ran a slow time in the Guineas for g to f, with Makfi, Sea The Stars and George Washington all setting faster times. If Zoffany was match fit in the Guineas I hardly doubt the margin would be 6 lengths if Zoffany had contested.
But his win today at Ascot timewise set him on a standard of recent winners like, Mastercraftsman and Canford Cliffs but not greater than that.
While Frankel is in the top bracket for G1 horses I cant have him in the Sea The Stars or Zarkava league just yet he has a long way to go to say he is better than Sea The Stars is laughable.
Anyone want to remind this poster that he was running into a fierce headwind? No I cant be bothered either.
Fierce headwind on 2000 Guineas day? Laughable suggestion. Was there. Don’t even remember how windy it was, but was certainly nowhere near as bad as on Sunday.
Having had a night to sleep on it a couple of things have occured to me.
Tom Queally said he had not sat on Frankel since the Guineas. Is this not a bit odd? I know that Shane Featherborough does a great job in getting the horse settled at home but surely it would make sense for the guy who rides him in his races to partner him in at least a gallop or two? Perhaps if he had he would have had more confidence in the horses ability to settle and might have held on to the horse a little while longer.
As far as I know from reading gallops reports for many years, most very good horses are ridden by their regular jockeys in their work. Strikes me as strange that’s all.
Secondly I think TQ’s riding at the moment is a hangover from the Dubai World Cup. Sir Henry has spoken many times about the fact that he has no time for his jockeys if they come off a beaten horse complaining about the lack of pace in a race. He is always adamant that, if the pace of a race is insufficient for one of his horses, the jockey should take more of the initiative. In the WC, for a second year running, Twice Over was beaten in a slow run tactical affair and I am sure words were exchanged after.
Since then we have seen both Midday and Frankel sent on a long way from home and fading in the last furlong. Clearly TQ thought that they would both maintain their gallops to the line as both have done before, but even so I think he may be a bit muddled at the moment. He looked very sheepish in the interview after the race – in fact you would almost think that he had lost!
I’m not sure its that. Himself made the point and he was absolutely right – You watch the St James Palace again and look at Queally in the stalls he looks scared stiff and its my view that he panicked on Frankel that a) The pacemakers was too far ahead b) He may get trapped on the rail and c) he knew he’d gone early in the Guineas so why not do it again even though Ascot is a stiffer track than Newmarket.
One thing is for sure if Queally keeps riding the horse like that he is going to get Frankel beaten when he really shouldn’t be, Canford Cliffs would have Frankel as a perfect target.
Queally needs to either (from somewhere) get ice in his veins or make way for another jockey. Frankel has sprinters speed we all know that there is no need for him to be set alight so early. Just hold on to him and let him go two out and no horse will beat him.
I heard someone on TV can’t remember who say "Frankel doesn’t finish his races well" or words to that affect. An unbelievably stupid comment – any other horse would finish practically last ridden the way Frankel is : Jan Vermeer, Cape Blanco, Rerouted – where did they all finish this week alone? Even So You Think was beaten after going for home early enough (though not as early as Frankel).
Just been flicking through this. I think you can’t really compare that ride to the Guineas. Letting him go from the start meant that by the time he was near the end he’d got too far ahead to be caught and nothing had really wanted to go with him. The problem with that push was a) the horse had settled for the first time in forever. b) he can clearly go like a bullet when he wants to, so no need to push him on early, if he’d done that 2/3 furlongs from home would have beaten everything by a considerable distance.
"Mr.Wilson" wrote: Frankel displayed why he’s the best horse in the world and better than Sea The Stars.
How did you come to the conclusion that he’s better than Sea The Stars?!
It’s impossible to say. However, the only time Sea The Stars ever looked in trouble in his 3yo season was when the gear box jammed as Kinane was trying to get him out of 2nd gear to go by Mastercraftsman
Frankel looked in trouble in that last furlong. If Queally had held onto him a bit longer he may have won more comfortably but there’s absolutely zilch in the formbook to say he’s better than Sea The Stars was.
Dubawi Gold was beaten further than the Guineas this time and this years Guineas takeaway Frankel, the Guineas was a crap renewal , Frankel actually ran a slow time in the Guineas for g to f, with Makfi, Sea The Stars and George Washington all setting faster times. If Zoffany was match fit in the Guineas I hardly doubt the margin would be 6 lengths if Zoffany had contested.
But his win today at Ascot timewise set him on a standard of recent winners like, Mastercraftsman and Canford Cliffs but not greater than that.
While Frankel is in the top bracket for G1 horses I cant have him in the Sea The Stars or Zarkava league just yet he has a long way to go to say he is better than Sea The Stars is laughable.
Anyone want to remind this poster that he was running into a fierce headwind? No I cant be bothered either.
Fierce headwind on 2000 Guineas day? Laughable suggestion. Was there. Don’t even remember how windy it was, but was certainly nowhere near as bad as on Sunday.
Zarkava you often make good, well reasoned points but you must really grow up and learn that others might not agree with you. To say that my post is a "laughable suggestion" does you no credit at all.
If you were there that day it means that you were in the stands and therefore not exposed to the wind that was mentioned many times in the television coverage and by several reports the next day – this was from Topsepeed in the RP the next day.
Faced with a stiff headwind head·wind he was never likely to establish any new benchmark times and taken at face value his winning time of 1m 37.30sec was over three seconds slower than the track record and 1.8sec outside Racing Post standard.
But once factoring in the allimportant going allowance, his performance warranted a Topspeed 132, topping the previous race best 129 posted by King’s Best in 2000.
You have made it very clear that you don’t rate the horse very highly and are one of those who have wanted to see him beat from day one. You will probably keep saying it until the day he DOES get beat at which point you will be able to say "told you so". Until then the rest of us will sit and enjoy watching him win Group 1’s in amazing style.
Get a grip and get your facts right.
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Bullcrap. I don’t want to see him beaten by inferior horses. If he gets beaten, I want it to be by a horse superior to him. If there is one. I’ve backed him to finish the season unbeaten at 12/1 so I’ve got a financial incentive anyway. There was no fierce or strong headwind on 2000 Guineas day. Zero. None.
I just think that this horse has been grossed flattered by his 2000 Guineas victory. It was a stunning performance, but in hindsight, could it just have been that he took several of the others by surprise? It wasn’t a good field, we knew that beforehand and beating more sub-standard 3yos isn’t going to make him any better. He needs to take on the best older horses in training. He needs to take on Canford Cliffs at Goodwood and Workforce at York. I know that latter one probably won’t happen, but it’s the 10 1/2 furlong clash that everybody wants to see now.
His jockey didn’t help him the other day and he’ll need to be a lot cooler at Goodwood.
Listen there is no debate here – it is a FACT that there WAS a strong headwind. That is not a laughable suggestion that is a FACT which I PROVED with the Topspeed report. Look at all the times they ran on Good to Firm ground that day. Read the reports. Check with the bleedin Met Office if you want – THERE WAS WIND!!!!!!
As for your ususal rubbish about it being a poor crop of 3 year olds – how you can possibly know that at this stage is baffling beyond belief but I did predict you would say that and sure enough you didnt disappoint.
There are people in life who don’t like winners and you seem to be one of them. Nothing would please you more than to see this horse beaten – you were the same with So You Think. A miserable attitude.
Whether you like it or not Frankel is 7 from 7. He has won 5 group races, 3 of them Group 1. He has beaten horses who, between them, have won over 20 group races, 10 of them Group 1. To say he was flattered by his Guineas win is ridiculous beyond compare. I suppose he was flattered by the Royal Lodge as well? Or the Dewhurst? Or all the other races he has won. I suppose Henry Cecil is talking rubbish when he calls the horse "exceptional". I suppose all the other jockeys, trainers, pundits have fallen for it as well? Any person with even the tiniest knowledge of horse racing can see that this is an amazing horse.
He took them by surprise in the Guineas all right. They couldnt keep up with him. Look at what happened to Dubawi Gold when they tried to change their tactics this week. He was obliterated.
Of course the next step is to take on his elders as it is for every 3 year old every year. If he get’s beat then fair enough but stop knocking a horse who deserves nothing but the highest praise for what he has achieved so far.
And check the weather reports for 30th April 2011!!!!
"this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"
Although some of us ( myself included ) have criticized Tom Queally’s ride on Frankel, I still don’t think Henry Cecil would replace his stable jockey given that a) he is very loyal and b) Queally has yet to be beaten on board the horse.
Ryan Moore also rides for Kahlid Abdullah – and would be an ideal substitute – but I think it is probably inconceivable that either he or Sir Henry would be looking to replace Tom Queally at this stage – or even at all: unless of course, TQ gets injured.
As for the Frankel v Canford Cliffs debate. I still believe that Frankel has the beating of him. Should they meet at Goodwood, my money will be on the 3 year old. Hopefully Mr.Queally will hold on to him that bit longer and then set sail for home – say, 2 and a half out. My view is, that when in full gallop, and not from too far out, Frankel will run the sting out of Canford Cliff’s finishing speed.
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Although some of us ( myself included ) have criticized Tom Queally’s ride on Frankel, I still don’t think Henry Cecil would replace his stable jockey given that a) he is very loyal and b) Queally has yet to be beaten on board the horse.
Ryan Moore also rides for Kahlid Abdullah – and would be an ideal substitute – but I think it is probably inconceivable that either he or Sir Henry would be looking to replace Tom Queally at this stage – or even at all: unless of course, TQ gets injured.
As for the Frankel v Canford Cliffs debate. I still believe that Frankel has the beating of him. Should they meet at Goodwood, my money will be on the 3 year old. Hopefully Mr.Queally will hold on to him that bit longer and then set sail for home – say, 2 and a half out. My view is, that when in full gallop, and not from too far out, Frankel will run the sting out of Canford Cliff’s finishing speed.
I agree with you I don’t for a second think Queally will be replaced Sir Henry and the prince are extremely loyal people.
Frankel vs Canford Cliffs – Frankel is a machine and will without question beat Canford Cliffs IF Queally rides him correctly but if he burns him out by the final furlong Canford will cut him down. If they meet I’ll have my maximum bet on Frankel with the utmost confidence as long as the Frankel camp are convincing pre-race that the horse is going to be given a significantly better ride than he has been given on his two previous outings.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.