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Said this before on another forum – Mastercraftsman was definitely ready to run in the guineas. He was one of the best lookers in the paddock and in my opinion was very fit so I believe he was ready to run his race. It was the 2000 guineas after all.
Every time Mastercraftsman has run in a quick race he has been beaten. The 2000 was run in a quick time and he simply is not quick enough on faster ground. The stiff track may help but I think the price is very skinny.
I’ll be opposing him with Delegator.
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No offence mate but disagree with you 100% on that. You can’t just wave a magic wand even if you are OAB and get a horse 100% just because it’s the 2000 guineas.
I reckon I’m not the worst judge in the world and the horse I saw run at the Curragh looked a totally different animal to the horse I saw in the guineas. He has 3 lengths or so to make up on Delegator and I reckong he’s improved at least 7lbs from then.
If one horse will suffer at the hands of this fellow it will be Delegator who will have the sting taken out of his tail before they hit the furlong marker.
He came there with every chance in the guineas was a straight as straight could be and didn’t go through with his run.
I think he’ll flounder here and Mastercraftsman and Elusive will gallop him into the ground.
I don’t think he has the stamina for a race like this and can see him being out of the first three
No offence mate but disagree with you 100% on that. You can’t just wave a magic wand even if you are OAB and get a horse 100% just because it’s the 2000 guineas.
I reckon I’m not the worst judge in the world and the horse I saw run at the Curragh looked a totally different animal to the horse I saw in the guineas. He has 3 lengths or so to make up on Delegator and I reckong he’s improved at least 7lbs from then.
If one horse will suffer at the hands of this fellow it will be Delegator who will have the sting taken out of his tail before they hit the furlong marker.
He came there with every chance in the guineas was a straight as straight could be and didn’t go through with his run.
I think he’ll flounder here and Mastercraftsman and Elusive will gallop him into the ground.
I don’t think he has the stamina for a race like this and can see him being out of the first three
Big statement! You had better get on Delegator for the July Cup then!
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What month is that run?
What month is that run?
Possibly July fool.
Delegator won’t stay Ascots stiff mile in a horsebox, don’t think Evasive will either.
Mastercraftsman will win if he reproduces his best form but will he / won’t he?
Alternative could be Westphalia at a decent price he has good form in Group 1’s including in the French Guineas. Difficult to win with but it wouldn’t surprise me to see O’Brien’s supposed second string come good. A stiff mile might be ideal for him.
I don’t see how a horse touched off by Sea The Stars in a truly-run Guineas can be said not to stay a mile. On good ground I’d make him favourite to beat Mastercraftsman and I made Hills 9/2 1/4 odds first 3 NRNB one of the bets of the season so far. Is a mile at the new Ascot still a far greater test than the Guineas? It is around a bend, after all…
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I don’t see how a horse touched off by Sea The Stars in a truly-run Guineas can be said not to stay a mile. On good ground I’d make him favourite to beat Mastercraftsman and I made Hills 9/2 1/4 odds first 3 NRNB one of the bets of the season so far. Is a mile at the new Ascot still a far greater test than the Guineas? It is around a bend, after all…
….and uphill for around 90% of the race,Carv.
Even allowing for the bend into the Ascot straight slowing down horses more than the dip at Newmarket wouldn’t explain the huge (4.2 secs) disparity in the RP standard times.
I’ll be amazed if Delegator is even a factor in the last furlong of this race.- Total Posts 17716
The fact AOB probably thinks the same way he’ll make sure the pace is very strong. If it wasn’t then Delegator could be factor but even if he was I doubt if he has grit to cope with Mastercrftsman is a head to head.
It looked an easy race to read to me when they were offering 7/4 about Masteraftsman and now I see the runners it looks even easier.
10/11 about him and 9/2 Delegator I think backs that up but horses have a terrible habit of making a complete fool out of you so who knows.
If the latter did win those who backed him would be thnking the bookies and the rest of us are stone mad.
Can’t see it though jsut too many obvious factors pointing to Mastercraftsman winning
The round mile at Ascot more of a stamina test that straight mile at newmarket….. erm I will have to disagree with that.
Delegator does stay a mile and a mile around a bend is what he wants for me, the tempo of a round mile will really suit him and 4-1 is much too big.
With all the obvious angles of pace and draw and trainer form backed accordingly these days, true value is harder to get than ever before, but the old forgive one bad run theory still grants you some decent prices again and again and this is one. Just my opinion tho.
Not to mention B Meehans horses coming out of the gloom in the last week, that has to be a huge bonus.
Fist – Masterctaftsman certainly looked a different horse at the Curragh, but surely theres a good chance that was because of the polar opposite ground conditions between the Irish / UK Guineas?
I’m backing Orzibaba ew for what its worth – encouraging reappearance, and the Boys in Blue sometimes get going at Ascot.
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The round mile at Ascot more of a stamina test that straight mile at newmarket….. erm I will have to disagree with that.
So we’ll have to accept it’s wrong – because you think so?
We’ll ignore that it takes longer to run.
That it starts at the lowest part of the course, and climbs virtually all the way to the winning post.
That even the straight mile at Ascot, which starts at an appreciably higher point than the round, takes horses 3.8 seconds longer to run than Newmarket’s Rowley Mile.
That recent Guineas’ winners such as Haafd, Finsceal Beo and Speciosa, have patently failed to stay it.
And a few other things like gravity, topography, history, the clock, and plain common sense……………because you think so?
I give up, ffs! That recent Guineas’ winners such as Haafd, Finsceal Beo and Speciosa, have patently failed to stay it.
The same Haafhd, Finsceal Beo and Speciosa who won the Champion Stakes, finished 2nd in the Tatts Gold Cup and finished 4th in the Epsom Oaks respectively?
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Zarkava
I’ll send you a calendar and a watch.
Haafhd won his race in October, the SJP is run in June.
Finsceal Beo ran 2nd in a Tatts run at a crawl, and Speciosa ran 4th in the worst Oaks field in memory, beating the 81 rated Guila by 2 lengths.
If you think that’s staying, pile your money on.Zarkava
I’ll send you a calendar and a watch.
Haafhd won his race in October, the SJP is run in June.
Finsceal Beo ran 2nd in a Tatts run at a crawl, and Speciosa ran 4th in the worst Oaks field in memory, beating the 81 rated Guila by 2 lengths.
If you think that’s staying, pile your money on.Jesus, that’s a bit harsh. Speciosa also finished 1/2L behind Short Skirt, a Musidora winner, and 2L behind Rising Cross, a Park Hill winner.
Finsceal Beo’s loss had nothing to do with the distance, was to do with the ground. Came cruising and found nothing. You may be right about Haafhd.
I think if you want to bet Mastercraftsman here, you are having to make a few assumptions, that a. he can reproduce heavy ground form on faster ground, and b. that he can turn around fast ground Guineas form with Delegator. For me, they are not the type of assumptions you need to be making when you’re thinking of backing an even money shot.
The above is tempered by him being a AOB 3yo, the stable know what horse they need to win this race. He may have improved & will just run away with it, but without any inside knowledge, you are having to take a gamble.
I would have preferred to see J.Spencer on Delegator. If they are going to hold him up, Spencer would be the man for the job. Remember Fortune & Raven’s Pass last year. Even though Ascot is stiff, the races can pan out to suit a horse with a turn of foot.
With only my own instincts to go on, I couldn’t back Mastercraftsman at anywhere near his current price. Wouldn’t lay him either though. You could argue Delegator is a bit of value, but he could just get blown away. My plan is to just watch this one.
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I don’t think Jamie Spencer is riding at all well, Colin, so seeing Jimmy Fortune take over on Delegator is something of a relief.
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