ST James Palace stakes

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This topic contains 83 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  mickeyjp 3 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1251420
    stevecaution
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    People need to learn how to read a race better.

    Galileo Gold wasn’t unlucky in Ireland and The Gurkha wasn’t unlucky today.

    That’s racing, it just doesn’t pan out as people expect sometimes.

    Galileo Gold did me a favour in the Newmarket Guineas but I took him on based on value over in Ireland. I didn’t fancy him today based on the going mostly and feeling the other two had more scope for improvement.

    Anyone taking odds on in a race this tight should be seeing a Psychiatrist rather than blaming jockeys.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251421
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    Haven’t seen any analysis of sectionals to confirm, but from what I saw didn’t look a slow pace, but wasn’t a strong one.

    Both Moore and Hayes held their horses up, not that that should’ve been a bad thing. No doubt expecting a strong pace and you can’t blame them with what seemed pacemakers in there for both Emotionless (Cymric) and Awtaad (Ehtiraas). As it happened, neither did their jobs – Hanagan nowhere near the pace and Doyle (although led) did not go fast enough – Emotionless too free out the back. First Selection (who usually leads/races prominently)’s jockey Crowley also probably expected pacemakers to go faster and so kept his horse further back which again did not pay – took a keen hold.

    All this led to Galileo Gold being in a much better position than The Gurkha (and to a certain extent Awtaad). Dettori kicked for home leaving Ryan trying to quicken (which is far more difficult on a soft surface) while finding his way through – doubly difficult.

    Not saying he definately would’ve won, would’ve been close but Galileo Gold had everything in the race go his way. imo The Gurkha was an unlucky loser. If the three meet again on good or good-soft I’d make the Ballydoyle horse favourite. May be he’ll get his own pacemaker next time.

    May be should’ve been slightly closer early so he could change tactics if needed, but I don’t blame Ryan – just one of those things. In positioning he played the percentage call (by what was known prior to the race) just did not pay off.

    value is everything
    #1251423
    Gingertipster
    Gingertipster
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    People need to learn how to read a race better.

    Galileo Gold wasn’t unlucky in Ireland and The Gurkha wasn’t unlucky today.

    That’s racing, it just doesn’t pan out as people expect sometimes.

    Galileo Gold did me a favour in the Newmarket Guineas but I took him on based on value over in Ireland. I didn’t fancy him today based on the going mostly and feeling the other two had more scope for improvement.

    Anyone taking odds on in a race this tight should be seeing a Psychiatrist rather than blaming jockeys.

    :lol:
    Hmmm, you strongly criticised me for saying something similar in a previous thread Steve. :unsure:

    When it’s said about you, you fly off the handle. Yet it’s alright for you to say it about others. ;-)

    value is everything
    #1251425

    goreisking
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    • Total Posts 192

    Once again Frankie rode em to sleep!!

    Don’t know what race you were watching Gore but Moore ran into a gap that closed and had to switch around Awtaad.

    Frankie got first run and that was the difference!! NUFF SAID!!

    And by the way I am not talking out of my pocket here as I didn’t have a bet in the race.

    Nope, completely wrong…when he asked The Gurkha he just didnt quicken its as simple as that! He had plenty of time to take the gap but wasnt picking up thats when the door got closed but he would of never of won anyway.

    Stop talking out of your pockets and just understand that The Gurkha simply wasnt good enough. Moore gave the horse every chance it just didnt pick up fast like it was expected to. Had plenty of time to win.

    #1251426

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 4105

    So my two-pennies worth. Galileo Gold was a very worthy winner. Frankie had him beautifully positioned throughout and he struck nice and early in the straight and was not stopping all the way to the line. The two favs were ridden out the back and were not able to make up the ground against a very good horse. If I was to slag off Moore I would be accused of pocket talk as I certainly DID back The Gurkha but I was certainly frustrated that he was coming from so far back and was then checked when the gap closed over a furlong out. I certainly could not say that he would have beaten GG without that happening but it would have been closer.

    As for The Gurkha not having wings – well there is plenty of racing still to be done on ground that will be a lot better than that. The shortening of his price tells me he was extremely well fancied by connections and I think they will feel that they let one get away today. I hope they send him to Sandown for The Eclipse as I would really like to see him run over a bit further. I still believe he will prove to be the best 3 year old of the season.

    So very well done to Joe and HP and Frankie and all who backed GG and let’s see what happens next time.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251429
    stevecaution
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    S
    As for The Gurkha not having wings – well there is plenty of racing still to be done on ground that will be a lot better than that.

    You said before the race that a good horse goes on any ground Joni, poor show using that as an excuse now.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251430
    stevecaution
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    People need to learn how to read a race better.

    Galileo Gold wasn’t unlucky in Ireland and The Gurkha wasn’t unlucky today.

    That’s racing, it just doesn’t pan out as people expect sometimes.

    Galileo Gold did me a favour in the Newmarket Guineas but I took him on based on value over in Ireland. I didn’t fancy him today based on the going mostly and feeling the other two had more scope for improvement.

    Anyone taking odds on in a race this tight should be seeing a Psychiatrist rather than blaming jockeys.

    :lol:
    Hmmm, you strongly criticised me for saying something similar in a previous thread Steve. :unsure:

    When it’s said about you, you fly off the handle. Yet it’s alright for you to say it about others. ;-)

    #

    **** stirrer alert.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251435

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 4105

    S
    As for The Gurkha not having wings – well there is plenty of racing still to be done on ground that will be a lot better than that.

    You said before the race that a good horse goes on any ground Joni, poor show using that as an excuse now.

    I think it is a poor show from you Steve. I have been absolutely reasonable in my assessment and not been a abda loser but you still want to pick up on a very tiny comment which is not in the least bit contradictory to what I said beforehand and use that, conveniently ignoring everything else I said. Yes good horses go on any ground and he went on the ground. He ran very well in fact. I am not using it as an excuse I am simply stating that there is lots of racing to be done on better ground and we all know that different ground can bring different results. As for your comment about people reading races better – you seem to read your races based on what you have said before the race not by what actually happens. You are being incredibly smug when you have no right to be. You backed the loser too but try to claim that you were right all along because you said it would be close.

    I said The Gurkha would win easily and I was wrong. I am happy to take that on the chin and in the pocket. But we’ll move on and I still believe he will turn out to be the best 3 year old.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251437
    thejudge1
    thejudge1
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    Sorry to get in the middle of an argument but my theory with the Gurkha is that Air Force Blue was always “the chosen one”

    When he didn’t win the guineas they had to go to plan b. Now if The Gurkha really was “the chosen one” all along, he surely would have run at Newmarket as well? I mean I’m not sure I buy this late developing three year old argument. Even if he didn’t run at two, they could found a way to pop him in the guineas.

    My theory with The Gurkha is that he’s a very good three year old that has been slightly overhyped because the horse they thought was going to work out to be a superstar didn’t turn out to be that.

    I think The Gurkha surprised them in france with the ease of his victory but to back him down to odds on today with the benefit of hindsight was somewhat crazy. Surely backing a horse at a shade of odds on when you are taking on two very high class animals and the form of your last win was somewhat suspect is not a long term successful strategy.

    Having said that I do think he has a chance of reversing the form in the Sussex stakes when he’ll get the better ground.

    #1251438

    Jonibake
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    Shall we talk about Belardo Steve? No – let’s not sink to your level.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251439

    Jonibake
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    You might be right Judge. Time will tell. BTW I didn’t back him at odds on.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251441

    Jonibake
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    • Total Posts 4105

    “Supporters of The Gurkha may have felt themselves a little hard done by as jockey Ryan Moore found himself squeezed up by Awtaad at a vital stage of the race having been held-up.

    The pair would certainly have finished closer than the final margin of a length and a quarter margin but for that loss of momentum and subsequent switch to the outside.”

    As reported in the Sporting Life. That pretty much sums up what I said. Yes I feel a little hard done by but can not be sure that he would have won.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251444
    stevecaution
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    S
    As for The Gurkha not having wings – well there is plenty of racing still to be done on ground that will be a lot better than that.

    You said before the race that a good horse goes on any ground Joni, poor show using that as an excuse now.

    I think it is a poor show from you Steve. I have been absolutely reasonable in my assessment and not been a abda loser but you still want to pick up on a very tiny comment which is not in the least bit contradictory to what I said beforehand and use that, conveniently ignoring everything else I said. Yes good horses go on any ground and he went on the ground. He ran very well in fact. I am not using it as an excuse I am simply stating that there is lots of racing to be done on better ground and we all know that different ground can bring different results. As for your comment about people reading races better – you seem to read your races based on what you have said before the race not by what actually happens. You are being incredibly smug when you have no right to be. You backed the loser too but try to claim that you were right all along because you said it would be close.

    I said The Gurkha would win easily and I was wrong. I am happy to take that on the chin and in the pocket. But we’ll move on and I still believe he will turn out to be the best 3 year old.

    This is a different scenario though Joni, because you had built the horse up to be the next best thing to Frankel and that’s setting yourself up to be a hero if proved correct, so you need to expect that to be questioned when the horse doesn’t live up to it.

    I would ask you to clarify where I have based my opinion on the running of the St James Palace Stakes on what I said before the race. My horse lost, so it doesn’t seem to make any sense. At no stage have I said Awtaad was unlucky, nor have I blamed the ground, I didn’t blame the jockey for sitting back in the early stages. I simply accepted that the best horse on the day won the race. How that ties in with me basing my comments in the aftermath, on what I had said before the race I don’t know.

    I suspect you are a bit rattled here. It was the same when John Gosden got criticised back in the day and you got very defensive over on the Hayley Turner thread because some didn’t share your enthusiasm.

    It seems its OK for you lads to have a giggle at me at the races for getting one wrong but it’s not reciprocated coming back the way.

    I’ve got nothing to be smug about, I get tons of them wrong but sometimes I see a horse early and am proved correct. Caravaggio was one such horse this year. I limited myself to saying he was a good Royal Ascot contender, I don’t see the point, nor feel the need to claim them as another Frankel.

    You are reading a lot more into this than there is but that’s your prerogative.

    Sections of the forum are far too often getting like the tufty club these days, where only people of a like mind are welcome into the discussion and I find that disappointing.

    It’s only a forum and not life or death. I’ve probably had as many pelters as anybody on here but I am just saying it how I see it.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251445

    Jonibake
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    You are a last word freak Steve. I’ll let you have it. I’ve said all I want to say.

    "this perfect mix of poetry and destruction, this glory of rhythm, power and majesty: the undisputed champion of the world!!!"

    #1251446
    stevecaution
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    • Total Posts 8281

    You are a last word freak Steve. I’ll let you have it. I’ve said all I want to say.

    Whatever.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

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