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I’ll say this about Gingertipster, somehow he does seem to enjoy a scrap with media folk. It was a tired draw with Lydia, though most will probably think she shaded it. As for Sean? Well Ginge, it’s no contest you’ve more than met your match. It’s a heavyweight against a featherweight.
Am I alone in now seriously hoping that someone gets a face full of egg next Saturday.
"Come on Knowhere, you’re coming to the last, a beautiful jump, like a stag, and now you can just come home on the bridle. What’s that you’re saying Knowhere? Oh I see, tell that Ginger guy he’s clueless and that you’ve only been running poorly so you could come down in the weights."Ginger you’ve done well to get 3 pages out of peope, think this topic is best locked because its such an outrageous question, a Grade 2 winner at Aintree in 2008 being asked to not run on grounds of not being able to jump – what has the world come to?
Mr Wilson,
Knowhere’s jumping has deteriorated since the Old Roan. He’s not up to that standard anymore anyway, as his falling handicap mark suggests. Not that ability has anything to do with SAFETY. Which is the only consideration in an exclusion.
Value Is EverythingI’ll say this about Gingertipster, somehow he does seem to enjoy a scrap with media folk. It was a tired draw with Lydia, though most will probably think she shaded it. As for Sean? Well Ginge, it’s no contest you’ve more than met your match. It’s a heavyweight against a featherweight.
Am I alone in now seriously hoping that someone gets a face full of egg next Saturday.
"Come on Knowhere, you’re coming to the last, a beautiful jump, like a stag, and now you can just come home on the bridle. What’s that you’re saying Knowhere? Oh I see, tell that Ginger guy he’s clueless and that you’ve only been running poorly so you could come down in the weights."I think you should go back and read the Lydia thread again Ken.
You’ve portrayed my opinion as the reverse of the truth.I was the one who defended Lydia so strongly, am a great fan. As I am of Sean. Totally respect his opinion / knowledge, but if I don’t agree with it, please allow me to say so. That’s what this forum is all about. Unlike some, we can have a perfectly good disgussion without trading insults.
Do think Knowhere is quite well handicapped, if (Big IF) he can jump better. So it is not out of the question he’ll win. It’s just (imo) the risk to himself and others is not worth taking. It is ONLY a safety issue, nothing to do with form.
Clueless? Moi, surely not.
Value Is Everything"Come on Knowhere, you’re coming to the last, a beautiful jump, like a stag, and now you can just come home on the bridle. What’s that you’re saying Knowhere? Oh I see, tell that Ginger guy he’s clueless and that you’ve only been running poorly so you could come down in the weights."
HAHAHA! I’m betting him now as i type . Come on Knowhere!!
Hi Mark, I agree that we’re fully entitled to disagree and it’s an entirely hypothetical argument anyway so only a bit of fun really.
What would be really good fun though would be for you to argue your case with Nigel TD over a pint down at the Hollow Bottom.
I think his response would be a little earthier than anything I’ve come up with!
We all, I’m sure, hope the horse comes back safe and sound and your concern on safety and welfare grounds is admirable but I would argue it’s misdirected in this case. There are horses running in the National with very limited experience of jumping fences in public and any one of those would be of greater concern to me than Knowhere.
As I say intervention would only be practical (and in my view desirable) in really extreme cases. There are no guarantees in this sport as L’Ami proved a couple of years back. I know that Mick Fitz was delighted to get the ride on that as it was regarded as such a safe conveyance.Knowhere is the one who I have most concern about, Ballyfitz is another. So think I’d better stay clear of Hollow Bottom.
Are you prepared to name those horses with "limited experience Sean? Coming from who you are; it would blow the naming out of all proportion to the supposed problem. So totally understand if you don’t.
Whinstone Boy is one without much chase experience. He’s jumped well the last twice, but did get an unobstructed view of the fences (making all). Whether he’ll jump as well in the pack is questionable. I’ve backed Big Fella Thanks (amongst others) but have mixed feelings. If he wins I think it will encourage others to get "experience" with novices; before coming back the next year with a chance of winning. Something I don’t want to see.
Value Is EverythingKnowhere is the one who I have most concern about, Ballyfitz is another. So think I’d better stay clear of Hollow Bottom.
Both the above horses are tough as teak,both find plenty for pressure and both will stay! Unfortunately both cant jump for toffee,so neither will need to pull on their resources!As far as Hollow Bottoms go,you never struck me as the sort Ginge!
So Knowhere’s going nowhere this weekend. Seems that Gingertipster got his wish; though in terms of fruitful threads this has been something of an anti-climax. A 0 – 0 draw though a moral victory for the pro-Knowhere camp, I do believe.
Whinstone Boy is one without much chase experience. He’s jumped well the last twice, but did get an unobstructed view of the fences (making all). Whether he’ll jump as well in the pack is questionable. I’ve backed Big Fella Thanks (amongst others) but have mixed feelings. If he wins I think it will encourage others to get "experience" with novices; before coming back the next year with a chance of winning. Something I don’t want to see.
FWIW, I think you worry too much gingertipster
I think the horse had every right to take his chance if he got in.
This topic is just as bad as all those who react with "Oh no! Don’t risk him!" every time their favourite horse is entered in any big race. Next thing we know the sport of National Hunt racing will just be watching our beloved friends rolling round in hay before "risking" a gallop up a hill.
I think the horse had every right to take his chance if he got in.
This topic is just as bad as all those who react with "Oh no! Don’t risk him!" every time their favourite horse is entered in any big race.
Next thing we know the sport of National Hunt racing will just be watching our beloved friends rolling round in hay before "risking" a gallop up a hill.
Oh no it’s not!
Every horse’s life is worth the same.
It’s all a matter of risk. With a horse like Denman, he usually jumps well so I have no objection to him running. Knowhere is a poor jumper, so should not be risked.I am relieved Knowhere does not run.
Value Is EverythingSo Knowhere’s going nowhere this weekend. Seems that Gingertipster got his wish; though in terms of fruitful threads this has been something of an anti-climax. A 0 – 0 draw though a moral victory for the pro-Knowhere camp, I do believe.
Thanks for the apology Ken.
Value Is EverythingIt’s all a matter of risk. With a horse like Denman, he usually jumps well so I have no objection to him running. Knowhere is a poor jumper, so should not be risked.
Isn’t the immediate problem with such a linear approach to jumping prowess, Ginger, that it presupposes it’s only poorly jumping horses that get killed by jumping errors?
The likes of Denman are probably as much of a caution as the likes of Knowhere, as there’s always the propensity for one instance of over-exuberance at an obstacle to prove at least costly and at worst fatal.
Prior to today, Plaisir D’Estruval and Prudent Honour had competed in 36 jumps races between them (including Irish points), only one of which had ended up with one of them on the floor. A rake over their profiles finds nothing significant that might have presaged their terrible demises today.
I’d maintain that unless something has demonstrably stood no schooling and is an unfettered menace to itself and others over obstacles, any wholly satisfactory jumping-related exclusion remains elusive.
gc
Jeremy Grayson. Son of immigrant. Adoptive father of two. Metadata librarian. Freelance point-to-point / horse racing writer, analyst and commentator wonk. Loves music, buses, cats, the BBC Micro, ale. Advocate of CBT, PACE and therapeutic parenting. Aspergers.
Jeremy,
Of course any horse can fall in the Grand National, but are you really saying good jumpers will fall just as many times as a poor jumper?
Of course some bold jumpers can also be too bold for their own good. But at least in their record they don’t fall as often as poor jumpers.
Poor jumpers can often "find a leg" on park courses. But they invariably come to grief in the National.
Bookmakers give prices for groups of horses to complete. There is a reason why in most groups, there’s a poor jumper.
Poor jumpers are more likely to fall, thst is a fact. What I am saying is the worst of these poor jumpers should not be allowed to run in the National. As the probability of falling and therefore injury / fatality and bringing down others (and their injury / fatality) is greater.
Value Is EverythingComply Or Die
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Eric’s CharmWhich group of nine do you believe will have more fallers, The one above or below?
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Arbour SupremeValue Is Everything
You’ve portrayed my opinion as the reverse of the truth.
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