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Nichols was wrong to do what he did and should have said nothing. However belicose defence (ala Fergie…whos laughable at times) would not come naturally to someone who is far more inclined to say it how it is. I prefer him that way…
From some of the posts above it would appear that the prime consideration here should be the jockeys career. I would put that way down the list of priorities
I will dare to say that PN is a perfect example of someone who does not tell things as they are and shamelessly grabs onto any near pausible excuse or explanation whenever it suits him.
I like many others believe there is no evidence that Sam has lost any of the ability that led to his Gold Cup triumph.
That’s as maybe, Firefox, but it hardly required a supreme feat of jockeyship to steer Denman to victory. The horse sailed over every fence, and never looked in any danger whatsoever. I don’t presume to know anything about race-riding, but I strongly suspect that any one of the top 20 jockeys around, could have won on Denman in March (someone who knows how to race-ride is welcome to correct me).
I’m not knocking Thomas’s ability either. I think he is a very competent pilot, who has seen a series of slapstick circumstances conspire against him. But equally, if McCoy is available to take the ride, I’d choose McCoy every time.
The surprising thing about this particular episode of jocking-off, is that people see it as abnormal. It happens all the time – it’s only the profile of the horses in question that has made it news.
There is nothing normal about these circumstances! Sam is being jocked off because connections are questioning his ability as a jockey,and have basically publicly announced a loss of faith in him by booking A.P!
Grasshopper,
What makes it news for me is more the drip-drip pathetic comments of Smith and Nicholls and not being man enough to be straight with Sam Thomas, instead of feeding the media.
There is nothing normal about these circumstances! Sam is being jocked off because connections are questioning his ability as a jockey…..
I think you will find that "questioning the ability" is implicit in every case of jocking-off, and this case is no different.
I can see a similar analogy here to that of Roy Keane, both he and Sam having too many falls and losing confidence. Perhaps, racing should adopt a similar tactic to Rafa Benitez i.e. when Sam is approaching a crucial part of the race there should be another jockey waiting in the wings of the fence ready for the substitution.
(Sorry, very much tongue in cheek) Time to move on, I think.I understand what you’re saying, OTS, but I don’t think for one second that Jimmy Fortune had a choice in that particular matter.
quote]No he didn’t and I think he made it very plain what he thought about it subsequently.
Probably right, but Frankies association with JG was always there and so seemed more likely. It all seemed far more amicable.
Grasshopper,
What makes it news for me is more the drip-drip pathetic comments of Smith and Nicholls and not being man enough to be straight with Sam Thomas, instead of feeding the media.
Well, you know what they say about believing everything you read in the paper, Salselon. Who really knows the full story?
Perhaps Thomas was told straight after the Hennessy? Perhaps Nicholls has had it out with him in private, told him he needs to pull his socks up, that the ride is gone, but that he still believes he ‘has it’?
Perhaps Nicholls has been apologetic in private, and Smith is the "villain" of the piece?
Who knows. I certainly don’t, so I choose not to subscribe comments as "pathetic" because I don’t know the whole picture.
Have Nicholls and Smith undermined Thomas this week? Maybe so, but I take anything that is reported with a pinch of salt, myself. And even if they have undermined him in public, it is what has been said in private that is more important.
For me, the whole episode has a touch of "laddered tights" hysteria about it.
I bet Sam Thomas thinks its a bit more than a "laddered tights" scenario!
In fact unless Sam himself comes out with a statement saying " I cant ride for toffee at the moment and have decided to take a break to sort my
riding problems out"I for one will maintain he is being made a scapegoat for
issues related to the horses jumping ability or lack of!All jockeys have a dip in form at some point throughout their careers but Sam has been dragged through mud this time. PN’s comments certainly haven’t helped either. ST is a very competent jockey but is, unfortunately, very much down on his luck at the moment.
I hoped that he would keep his ride on MM but sadly that is not the case and at the end of the day the trainer/owner makes the decision. Sam will be back though – no doubt about it.
Geezus now I’m an ex-jockey….I was wondering who I was, I must have landed on my head mate and be suffering from amnesia…. wouldn’t happen to know if I was any good would you…………Alleged my backside mate……have owned and ridden out and even schooled at a few yards through choice and opportunity but never at any time did I make that claim..My Best friend was a Jockey and trainer before he was killed in an accident…I think you are confusing me with someone else………probably grasshopper who I hear loves to ride
Hogwash eh.ok lets put this put this in perspective for you….what you are saying is that ex-top jockey and current top trainer Paul Nicholls is employing a totally useless jockey to ride the one of the best 2 horses in the country in Denman and Kauto Star? That is pure and utter bullsit and if you think you know better than PN you should open a yard tomorrow. The lad has had a bit of bad luck which might well cost him the mount on Master Minded if the owner isn’t happy but if he was as useless as you are saying he wouldn’t have lasted 5 minutes as PN wouldn’t risk his buisness for anyone he thought wasn’t up to standard………game over mate do yourself a favour stop trying to judge jockeys and let common sense tell you that these guys out there know what they are doing and to critisise from your armchair is the easiest thing in the world.
Fists, when your out of your depth your out of your depth. I have a feeling your going to lose this argument (I know sod all about the technicalities of riding I should add)..
Out of my depth.are you kidding me?.There’s a laugh… Some jumped up ex stable lass comes on this forum to slag off a perfectly good jockey who put her right in her place when she worked at Hen Knights and she has held a grudge against ever since……the difference between me and her is I know exactly who she is and she hasn’t a clue who I am. She’s way out of her depth and has no idea who she is messing with. She might get away with that sort of garbage on her own little regular forum but on here we’ a little bit more knowlegeable to take crap like her post seriously.
FoF, apologies, I don’t look in here very often and I had thought that you had said you were an ex-jockey, clearly I was mistaken there.
You are suffering from a case of mistaken identity I’m afraid; I’ve never worked for nor ridden out for Hen, so I have no idea either who you are or who you think I am!
For some time I have not liked the way Thomas rides and have often said that I don’t like the way he rides over obstacles. At the moment is he suffering such a confidence crisis that he is riding even worse at present and I think, like Drone, that he would be better off taking a few days off. I also feel that he should go and see Yogi Breisner, who could sit him down and show him where he is going wrong by watching replays, and give him some tuition on horseback. This alone will boost his confidence again.
When it comes to the Big Buck’s ride, again I will state I didn’t back the horse and I don’t even think he would have won – nor am I stating that he should have sat that blunder. My point is that had Thomas had a hold of his head coming into the fence, the blunder would not have been so pronounced since the horse will have been balanced more effectively and would have been able to rebalance himself against the contact with the reins.
clivex wrote:
Nichols was wrong to do what he did and should have said nothing. However belicose defence (ala Fergie…whos laughable at times) would not come naturally to someone who is far more inclined to say it how it is. I prefer him that way…From some of the posts above it would appear that the prime consideration here should be the jockeys career. I would put that way down the list of priorities
I will dare to say that PN is a perfect example of someone who does not tell things as they are and shamelessly grabs onto any near pausible excuse or explanation whenever it suits him
He can do that afterwards but is as communicative with the public as any trainer we have seen beforehand and you dont get the impression that hes putting punters away, despite what some paranoids may think
Compared with so many others, thats fair enough for me
Does it necessary follow that in, Walsh’s absence, Sam Thomas should automaticlly pick-up the best rides in the yard, just by dint of being No.2 stable jockey? I’m not so sure that it does.
Clearly, Sam was employed primarily to ride those horses that Ruby chooses to discard, or to attend the minor meeting for his guvnor, whilst Ruby rides at the day’s main meeting.
It doesn’t necessarily follow that the stable see him as a ‘supersub’ for Walsh for whenever he is out injured or with suspension, as he has essentially only been employed to ride the ‘second-tier’ horses in the yard anyway (notwithstanding the fact that most of those are pretty handy too).
Perhaps if a McCoy, or a Thornton had been available to take the ride in the Gold Cup, we may have seen one of them get the leg-up on Denman, rather than Sam Thomas.
You may be right about Denman, though having won the Henessy in such a positive fashion Thomas had established his credentials.
With a yard like Nicholls’ the number 2 jockey doesn’t just ride 2nd tier horses on a Saturday – there will be plenty of rides on horses who will be aiming at big prizes in March.
All top sportsmen face a battle that frequently is a mental one and whether Sam Thomas could have coped with that if he rode Master Minded we will never know. Similarly the effect on the jockey in future rides of being stood down is uncertain but Nicholls stands to be as big a loser as his jockey.
I think Nicholls has said too much – his comments about the advice given by him and Ruby Walsh not being followed is laughable when you watch the defeats of Kauto Star and others last spring.
It was refreshing to read what Paul Nichols had to say about Sam today.
Sam has made it clear he wil be happy to be elsewhere when MM runs as he was on a hiding to nothing the way things were going.
Obviously he would liked to have ridden the horse but what the heck they’ve backed him up to the hilt and he rides Noland.
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Sundays headlines were.
"Master Minded defeated as Super-Sub Sam gives Noland a perfect ride to snatch victory" ?
Paul Nicholls told the press there is no way Sam will be sacked but that’s not the full story.
Paul told Sam privately if he falls or is unseated from Bobby On The Beat at Plumpton today he will expect his resignation in the morning
Wouldn’t it be ironic if Sundays headlines were.
"Master Minded defeated as Super-Sub Sam gives Noland a perfect ride to snatch victory" ?
This would be even better:
”Master Minded defeated as Super-Sub Sam gives Noland a perfect ride to snatch victory, before telling Nicholls to stick his job up his a55.”Wouldn’t it be ironic if Sundays headlines were.
"Master Minded defeated as Super-Sub Sam gives Noland a perfect ride to snatch victory" ?
This would be even better:
”Master Minded defeated as Super-Sub Sam gives Noland a perfect ride to snatch victory, before telling Nicholls to stick his job up his a55.”….Oh that would be the best news this week lol, i just hope sam n nobby come home safe but obviously prey they win 4 both of them lol, ive never been pauls biggest fan after what happened to azza, however i think what connections and the press are doing to sam is really out oforder, and im so glad that our team have not lost faith, , gd luck to all………….. xx
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