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Why aren’t I surprised that Clive doesn’t want to take in to account Russians point of view? LOL
Every country has to take into account every other country’s point of view, that’s diplomacy. That does not mean we need to agree with them.The reason the centre-right use “the left” Ian; is because it describes more than one party. Labour, Liberals, Greens, SNP and Welsh Nationalists… And “far left” describes the left wing of the largest left wing party Labour; the Corbyns, Abbotts etc.
Value Is EverythingWhat appears to be some final efforts by NATO/EU to avoid any crises are planned calls today between Biden and Putin and Macron and Putin. Warnings were given by countries for the citizens and diplomats to leave Ukraine immediately. This sense of panic/urgency is in stark contrast to the attitude of Ukrainian people, especially their government which apparently didn’t issue any warnings of an impending invasion. They continue to carry on “business as usual”. Are they just plain complacent or do they know something that the outside world doesn’t?
Corbyn is relevant.
Because if you left wing TRFers had your way Labour would’ve won the last election and we’d now have Corbyn as PM… and people like his best friend Abbott in the cabinet. Latter actually served on the Foreign Affairs Committee from 1997 to 2001.Yes, Lizz Truss is by no means my favourite Conservative (have you seen her “cheese” speech?). But just imagine Diane Abbott as our foreign Minister in this Ukraine / Russia crisis. Now that really would be a national embarrassment.
Value Is EverythingUkraine wants to play things down in public, Turk’; because it hurts their economy if they don’t… And panic doesn’t help anyone in the country. Rest assured they’ll be ready as they can be – not that it can repel the (potential) invader.
Value Is EverythingYou can’t imbue all Labour voters with Corbyn’s values just because he was once Leader any more than you can assume they have Starmer’s different values just because he is leader now.
And since when were the Lib-Dems “the left?”
They formed a coalition with the Conservatives.
Just shows how the political epicentre has shifted – is Ken Clarke part of this thing “the left” too now?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"But where I DO agree – I’ve finally found a more unsuitable candidate for Foreign Secretary than Liz Truss….Clive!
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Liberals might have been centre many many years ago Ian. But even before being in coalition they were centre-left. True their leader at that time Nick Clegg was nearer the centre than many of his party… And with Cameron also nearer the centre than many in the Conservative Party it was a fairly good relationship – at least between the two leaders if not the two parties.
However, many old Liberal voters hated the fact they were in bed with Conservatives and as a consequence Liberals lost ground in the following election. Since then their leaders at least have edged left. Some in the Liberal party actually say they want a “coalition of the left”… With them and Labour organising constituencies so that “the left”‘s vote is not split between the two. ie Even the Liberal party describe themselves as “left”.
Value Is EverythingOf course not all Labour MPs (or voters come to that) have the values of Corbyn, Ian..
If only Labour could get rid of all the far left. Might then be able to vote for a centre-left (with the emphasis on centre) Labour Party myself.
Trouble is the difference between one end of Labour and the other is massive… And the point is if Labour had won the last election Corbyn and his brand of far left Labour would’ve been the ones actually wielding power.
ie Centre-left Labour voters may have voted Labour but they would not have got a centre-left government had Labour won. Just a Putin loving neo-communist government.
Value Is Everything“However, many old Liberal voters hated the fact they were in bed with Conservatives and as a consequence Liberals lost ground in the following election.”
The Liberal Democrats also mightily annoyed the student community by saying they were against tuition fees but then reneged on that commitment as part of the deal to join the coalition. The party has never recovered the student vote.
More importantly, the Liberal Democrats lost ground in the West Country where the party had a lot of seats. Many natural Tory voters supported them during the Blair years when the Conservatives were at a low ebb and they in effect had a free vote. When in 2015 they were faced with the possibility of a Labour/SNP coalition, they decided they no longer had that luxury. They returned to the Conservative fold and have stayed there ever since
I think the Coalition annoyed Labour voters who tactically-voted Lib-Dem (in seats where they were bigger than Labour) the most.
2010 was the Election the Lib-Dems claimed to be to the left of Labour.
Then the subsequently loathed and despised Nick Clegg did the Coalition deal, demonstrating this was manifestly not the case.
The Lib-Dems lost the future tactical support of Labour voters from that day forwards.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Dennis Skinner for PM!
I've stumbled on the side of twelve misty mountains
I've walked and I crawled on six crooked highwaysNick Clegg had said whichever of the two main parties had most seats would be their preferred option. Which is imo only fair.
They did talk to Labour but didn’t get very far because Brown wanted too much.
“I think the Coalition annoyed Labour voters who tactically-voted Lib-Dem (in seats where they were bigger than Labour) the most”.
Liberals got some Labour voters before and some Conservatives lent them their vote too.
They were thoroughly betwixt and between which was difficult to pull off.
Liberals have in the past come close to getting my vote.
Not now that they’ve well and truly nailed their colours to the left, not gonna get my vote now.Value Is EverythingIt’s that whole “if you’re on the Left then you must believe in and support….” thing, David.
To be fair, many on the Left are equally bad about saying similar to people on the Right.
People do love their stereotypes and to confine their thinking to within that comfortable, familiar, frame of reference.
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