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“How often do you see such moves”?
In times of war.
“Significant turnarounds happened at major exchanges worldwide. Again, this suggests that hostilities may not move beyond Ukraine, as the media like to scare monger”?
Media is only saying about the increased chance of things happening now that there’s been an invasion. That’s legitimate free press.
Markets allow for probabilities of things happening.
If the odds of something happening has been over-estimated then markets will react. ie If markets have gone too far one way then it will respond by pushing back. In other words directions in Markets are less about what is predicted and more about what has been previously under or over estimated. So to say that markets predict this or that by direction alone is wrong.Value Is Everything“Frankly the only way this will end is internal upheavals (I sense more likely than many think) ending hopefully with his execution on film as per ceaucescu in Romania (although I would have a preference for extensive torture followed by a beheading rather than bullets. And make farage Corbin and trump watch it) ”
Whatever floats your boat Clive personally I’d rather move forward from the 13th centuary.
I agree that Finland don’t want to join NATO and NATO don’t particularly want them to join, BigG.
They’d rather be neutral like they were last week, but Russia invading non-NATO Ukraine and threatening Finland itself changed things. It may now be seen as Finland’s least bad option… An option that should certainly be kept on the table.NATO has to be strong and robust in their reactions to Putin, ie if NATO is seen as weak then Putin will go further than Ukraine.
Value Is EverythingGT wrote:
“As I said on page 11 of this thread, BigG…
“Ukraine has the right to become a member of NATO.”….
What right does Ukraine have to become a member? Where is it explicitly written in the NATO charter or UN charter that Ukraine has such a right? Then why doesn’t Ukraine exercise its right to membership in NATO?If such logic is correct, then Russia or any other country on the plant has the same right, true?
I have have a right to free speech, a right to vote, a right to assembly, which are given to me by my country’s constitution. I exercise my rights every day. Why can’t Ukraine?
GT: Further to my post above, I think what you’re trying to say is that Ukraine has a right to “seek”, or apply” for, membership in NATO. Am I correct?
Yes, Ukraine had the right to seek NATO membership, Turk.
Ukraine is (or was) a free democratic country.
If its people want NATO membership AND if it is within the rules of NATO… But it is not within NATO rules to grant membership – even before this invasion. ie There was trouble in Donbass even before this week and so Ukraine had internal problems. Therefore (as I understand it) make NATO membership against NATO rules in that situation. In Ukraine’s case NATO membership was never going to be quick. Perhaps in 10 or 20 years.As I understand, under Yeltsin Russia joining NATO was for a short time considered, at least by Yeltsin.
If its leader and people want membership and is a stable country both internally and externally and is willing to follow NATO rules then why not? But Russia is currently none of those things.Value Is EverythingNo it’s not the 13th century bigg
They would do it Mexican style. With a chainsaw
Isis is so medieval and we have the technology now. Also with lack of experience and just a big knife the cutter might make a pigs ear of it and leave it half hanging off.
I understand you point, GT.
However, this from the “North Atlantic Treaty Organization: Fact Sheet, July 2016”
Process of Accession
European countries that wish to join NATO are initially invited to begin an Intensified Dialogue with the
Alliance about their aspirations and related reforms. Aspirants may then be invited to join the Membership
Action Plan, a programme which helps nations prepare for possible future membership. Participation does not
guarantee membership, but is a key preparation mechanism.
To join the Alliance, nations are expected to respect the values of the North Atlantic Treaty, and to meet certain
political, economic and military criteria, set out in the Alliance’s 1995 Study on Enlargement. These criteria
include a functioning democratic political system based on a market economy; fair treatment of minority
populations; a commitment to resolve conflicts peacefully; an ability and willingness to make a military
contribution to NATO operations; and a commitment to democratic civil-military relations and institutions.Questions:
1. Is there any evidence that Ukraine was “initially invited to begin an Intensified Dialogue with the Alliance…”?
2. Is there any evidence that Ukraine (the “Aspirant”) was invited to join the “Membership Action Plan….”?
Yes? No?
If they had a “right” join, they would have exercised their right loooooong time ago!
I don’t think we should take some of Clive’s meanderings too seriously and / or too literally.
Value Is Everything“Ukraine is (or was) a free democratic country.”
Up to a point Ginger. But its pro-Russian President was deposed in a coup a few years ago. And the country is institutionally corrupt.
I am not saying I believe every word or even that many of them – but it is interesting speculation from Ginger’s favourite site:
“And the country is institutionally corrupt.”
Indeed, see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine
Though the first paragraph of that lengthy screed does hint that it is slowly becoming less corrupt:
“Corruption is widespread in Ukrainian society.[1][2] In 2012 Ernst & Young put Ukraine among the three most-corrupt nations of the world – alongside Colombia and Brazil.[3] In 2015 The Guardian called Ukraine “the most corrupt nation in Europe”.[4] According to a poll conducted by Ernst & Young in 2017, experts considered Ukraine to be the ninth-most corrupt nation in the world.[5] According to the Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index, Ukraine ranked 117th out of 180 countries in 2020, ranking the second lowest in Europe, after Russia.[6]”
[My words] It being a country undergoing the tortured process of democratization strengthens the case – if it needs in anyway strengthening – for wholehearted support from established democracies in its fight against an aggressor intent on undoing that democratization
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_cuisine
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_cuisine
I feel many miss the key aspect of this – the food!
Sadly, it’s a no-score draw for me with this one.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"When trying to get corruption out of your country, last thing you want is a close (controlling) relationship with a certain Vladimir.
Value Is Everything
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