- This topic has 125 replies, 23 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 6 months ago by
.
- Posts
Accepted
Best two 3yos this season so far?
St Mark’s Basilica 1m-1m2f and the miler Poetic Flare.
Best older horse in training?
I would suggest Palace Pier – another miler.
That’s where the game has headed.
Snowfall doesn’t look a bad nag and Love is OK as well. Both 10-12f fillies not 8-10f.
Top or near- top rated horses of the past few years: Ghaiyyath, Magical, Enable, Crystal Ocean, Waldgeist. All 10-12f horses not 8-10f horses.I would be wary of getting too excited about Snowfall.
Soft ground can exaggerate winning margins and give a misleading impression about margins of superiority.
I will be interested to see how The Oaks winner gets on when tackling Good ground at Group 1 level.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Tbh, Masar and Wings Of Eagles were no great shakes either and Harzand never won an all-aged Group 1.
You have to go back to Golden Horn to find the last Derby winner who lived up to the great race’s name.
Well, what about our 8f colts’ classic? Kameko, Magna Grecia, Saxon Warrior, Churchill, Galileo Gold and Gleneagles- all decent horses but not exactly names to conjure with and none won an all aged G1. The only one of those to win an all aged race of any sort was Kameko winning the G2 Joel Stakes half a length from Regal Reality. You have to go back to Night of Thunder to find an all aged G1 winner- the Lockinge a neck from Toormore was the only other race he won after the 2000gns. MG and SW won nothing. Churchill won the Irish 2000gns then nothing, Galileo Gold the SJP then nothing, Gleneagles both then flopped twice in the autumn and retired.
Then you get back to Dawn Approach, Camelot (a 12f horse who, if he hadn’t been running against a druggie, would have achieved a feat more notable than any of the above) and then Frankel himself. Who gets more 10f-2m horses than 8-10f horses.
So that’s what our shortest classic does; not convinced lopping 2f off the big one will suddenly produce a host of superstars.
I would be wary of getting too excited about Snowfall.
I agree with this. Also, think Love might struggle on soft ground.
Equally, Poetic Flare looked wow in the SJP but let’s see what happens next. I suppose we’rw not going to get a Frankel or an Enable every year.Good thread all. My own preference is to keep the Derby at 12f and agree with those of you saying we’ve quite enough 10f Group 1s already. I remember calls to reduce the Ascot Gold Cup to 2 miles back in the 80s/90s. That didn’t happen and the noise went away.
On another tack, I seem to recall John Oxx saying (in Sea The Stars’ year) that he believed in the Triple Crown and that with ‘the great sires we have’, there was no reason why it couldn’t be won again in the modern age, but STS wasn’t the right horse for it. Camelot damm near proved him right 3 years later (only going down by less than a length in the Leger to an Al Zarooni “improver”).
So we are to bow what the breeders want not what the breed needs. If the trend of stallions full of milers and sprinters continues the derby will have to be shortened as there won’t be enough decent horses at 12f. Only coolmore and Godolphin actively try to breed derby winners. Most breeders want sprinters or mile /10f horses. This isn’t going to end well.
I’d be wary in doubting snowfall. That last 2f at Epsom was unreal. Maturing all the time. I’d back her to win the arc as she will get softish ground but I’m not sure she needs it. We shall see.
.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Could see Snowfall was winning the Oaks a year in advance..
Charles Darwin to conquer the World
Agree with your comments greenasgrass; the recent records of Guineas winners don’t compare favourably to those of Derby winners.
I find it puzzling that people who are strongly against Cheltenham having a fifth day are comparatively at ease in offering up the Derby to be shortened. Both boil down to commercial pressures.
I don’t see the similarity. The Derby at 10f could potentially help its competetiveness. Cheltenhams 5th day has no such pretensions.
BUY THE SUN
- Total Posts 2553
- Total Posts 2553
Pretentious, Moi
Thought I’d just try to add a bit of interest to this very boring thread.
Back to the lounge for me now, as I know my place
I don’t see the similarity. The Derby at 10f could potentially help its competetiveness. Cheltenhams 5th day has no such pretensions.
The similarity is that both are significant changes to well-established events that would be being driven purely by money. In much the same way as a fourth day at Cheltenham will lead to a fifth day, a reduction in the distance of the Derby is likely to be a slippery slope to further race distance reductions.
- Total Posts 2553
Just a quick question to Admin – Are people stuck with their signatures in the same way that they are stuck with their Avatars?
“Thought I’d just try to add a bit of interest to this very boring thread.”
Yes, I know. A thread about horse racing. In something called The Racing Forum. Who wants one of those?
In theory, the Triple Crown provides the perfect blend of tests for a 3yo and potential future stallion.
Having the early maturity and speed to win the 2,000 Guineas over the Rowley Mile in May, having the stamina and again being ready by the first week in June and having the balance to win The Derby on Epsom Downs over 1m4f.
And holding your form until September and being able to stay the extended 1m6f at Doncaster.
The problem is the 21st century global marketplace – not breeders, they merely supply the marketplace and reflect its needs – no longer seeks that blend of attributes.
It wants precocity at two and speed to win at 1m-1m2f at three.
In the USA they still run the Belmont Stakes over 1m4f, but few if any in the field are bred to get the trip and most come back in distance thereafter.
Over here, unless you have a future Cup horse/potential NH stallion, stretching a horse’s stamina in the St Leger is a pointless exercise.
Once you reach a point where racing an entire over a trip won’t enhance its stud value – and might even reduce it – you are on dodgy unsustainable ground.
If The Derby was the right trip for its era, winners wouldn’t need to come down in distance thereafter – it would be Irish Derby, King George, Arc every time….job done.
I am a traditionalist, it will be a sad day if The Derby goes the same way as the Prix du Jockey Club, but it looks increasingly out of line with the bloodstock world we now live in and it badly needs another Golden Horn as the last few winners have hinted it’s turning into the English Belmont with the St Leger in even worse shape.
I am "The Horse Racing Punter" on Facebook
https://mobile.twitter.com/Ian_Davies_
https://www.facebook.com/ThePointtoPointNHandFlatracingpunter/
It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.