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Julian Muscat in an RP column has suggested that it is time to reduce the Derby distance to 10 furlongs….
I don’t know where to start.
I agree with him. As a starting point, it may have encouraged the best horse of all time to run in what we all would like to be the best race.
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As a traditionalist, I don’t want to see this change.
However, the Classics (unchanged in centuries) used to be mere stepping stones en route to the “big one” – the Gold Cup over 2m4f at 4yo and beyond – and breeding priorities are very different in the 21st century where speed and precociousness are King.
The 2,000 Guineas is fine – an early test at a mile.
But The Derby ought to be 1m2f and the St Leger 1m4f.
Time was when The Derby winner was routinely aimed at the King George but nowadays it’s better to go to York for the International Stakes (as Australia did) to get a 1m2f win in to enhance the global stud value.
Like I said, I don’t want it – I like it things the way they are – but the argument for it gets stronger every year.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"I remember reading an article in the late 1980s which argued it was a terrible anachronism for Wimbledon to be played on grass courts. It confidently predicted they would be dug up in favour of hard courts.
Over thirty years later, the lawns are still there. And I think the same thing will apply with Epsom. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard someone say the Derby should be reduced to 10 furlongs. And there is still no sign of it actually happening.
Perhaps not the greatest anaology CAS, as the engineered grass at Wimbledon is now a slower surface to the Hard Courts at the AO and UO, according to general conscensus.
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Perhaps. But I have heard all this talk of reducing the Derby distance for at least 20 years. It has never happened and I see no sign of it happening any time soon. Not sure what Muscat is going on about, to be honest.
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I don’t know where to start.
Oh I do love a quiz- is the answer a mile and a quarter from the winning post?
I’m here all week… maybe
I love The Derby. I want our best 3yo to be The Derby winner. I think reducing the race to 10f makes this more feasible.
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No thanks, there’s nothing wrong with The Derby, or the distance. The issue is the selfish breeders wanting speed, speed & more speed. Where will it end? It’s about time people told them were to go.
It happens in lots of sports; when you start meddling you’re in trouble. Leave it as it is, it will come back into fashion in time.
Breeders are merely reacting to changing demand in the market place.
More owners nowadays want the chance of a quick return on investment, hence the demand for precocious 2yo types and it’s a global market place nowadays and the focus Stateside is on 1m2f, or even 1m1f.
Times have changed massively since the days when the Classics were first conceived and nowadays if The Derby winner doesn’t go on to win a Group 1 at 1m2f it can quickly get the NH sire label at stud.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"“Times have changed massively since the days when the Classics were first conceived and nowadays if The Derby winner doesn’t go on to win a Group 1 at 1m2f it can quickly get the NH sire label at stud.”
Yep – and hasn’t Pour Moi still got the NH sire label, even though he has actually Sired a Derby winner? Unbelievable that.
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Exactly – the modern commercial need for The Derby winner to come back in trip and win tells its own story.
It’s not a 1m4f game on the world breeding stage any more – 1m2f is the most coveted winning distance.
As I think you implied, Frankel never ran at 1m4f and he wouldn’t have added so much as a penny (in fact he might well have reduced it) to his stud value even if he had.
Not many blue bloods are even bred to stay 1m4f any more and much though I would personally hate to see the distance change, left at 1m4f it will continue to fade IMO.
Best two 3yos this season so far?
St Mark’s Basilica 1m-1m2f and the miler Poetic Flare.
Best older horse in training?
I would suggest Palace Pier – another miler.
That’s where the game has headed.
Sea The Stars, the other great 3yo of recent years, IMO notably bypassed the Irish Derby and King George and went for the 1m2f Eclipse instead and then to York and Leopardstown with the Arc almost an afterthought.
That commercial need to win at 1m2f again.
I wonder if the next Sea The Stars in future years will even go to Epsom?
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Sea The Stars only bypassed the Irish Derby because the ground turned soft. And this year’s Derby winner is being aimed at the King George.
If the Derby was reduced to 10 furlongs (which I still think is unlikely), would they upgrade the King Edward VII (the “Ascot Derby”) to a Group 1? After all, the French Derby is now in effect the Group 1 Grand Prix de Paris since the Prix du Jockey Club was reduced in distance.
I would suggest St Mark’s Basilica is better than Adayar, The Derby winner.
St Mark’s Basilica went to Chantilly because the Prix du Jockey Club was reduced in distance some years ago now.
It’s not the same race as a result, I miss it being 1m4f, but if as a consequence it attracts colts of higher quality than Epsom going forwards the pressure for change won’t go away.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"It’s a tricky one and I can see the advantages, though making changes based on current market trends is always risky. If it was to happen, a drop to 1m 4f would definitely enhance the status of the St Leger, which would also attract Arc hopefuls (assuming that didn’t also drop to 1m 2f).
Cork Everton football club has promised their fans a new stadium since the early ’70s the pie stall changed, got a lick of paint happy days.
12 furlongs is fine, Julian Wilson said the problem with the Derby is the undulating track, and his choice was York flat track, etc.
Cast your minds back a few years when York was Royal Ascot and the posh crew got nose bleeds because they passed the Watford gap.
Derby will be run over 4 furlongs in 3021
Frankel’s great, great, great times whatever grand-gelding won in a time of 25.53 seconds breaking the track record at Taunton who have held the Derby since 2789 two years after Hexham dropped the distance from 5 furlongs.
Trainer Aidan Mckerall-Smith-Punjabi-Catalonia-O’Brien Junior the 3rd said “listen the horse has speed but also processes plenty of stamina so we are thinking of running him in the Ascot Gold Cup over 6 furlongs so we are”Gaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
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