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“The similarity is that both are significant changes to well-established events that would be being driven purely by money. In much the same way as a fourth day at Cheltenham will lead to a fifth day, a reduction in the distance of the Derby is likely to be a slippery slope to further race distance reductions.”
I don’t see that at all. Completely different arguements I think. And CAS is right. Shut up Tank.
Good post again ID.
BUY THE SUN
Overlooked here is that although the French reduced the distance of the Prix du Jockey Club, they still have a 1M 4F Group 1 that is limited to 3-y-olds. The Grand Prix de Paris is run over that trip on Bastille Day, July 14th.
The dates of the Guineas and the Derby/Oaks were set early in the season two hundred years ago, when watering of courses was unknown and AW gallops unheard of. By running at the start of June, they hoped to avoid the hard ground that was normal by midsummer, both on the courses and the home gallops.
If you sat down now with a blank sheet of paper, it would surely make more sense to move the Derby to a later date, rather than test 3-y-olds at 1M 4F so soon. My ideal would be the Guineas in mid May, convert the St James Palace to 10F and run the Derby, over the same course and distance as now, in mid July. It’s a nonsense that we don’t have a 10F Group 1 for 3-y-olds and Royal Ascot would be the ideal place/date to stage such a race.
- Total Posts 2553
CAS, not everyone on this forum is a fan of flat racing or cares if the Derby is run over 12f or10f or on a Saturday or Wednesday. HTH
The thread title gives a big clue to what the subject is Tank,
why look into the thread if you are not interested. HTHGaelic Warrior Gold Cup Winner 2026
It was ill mannered to disrupt a thread other people have been enjoying with a facile post which contributed nothing.
Do you think every thread should meet with your personal approval?
I contribute to other forums where your post would have been removed by the mods.
Maybe stick to posting random song clips is more your thing?
Personally they could scrap the derby for all I care. The race has never really interested me despite all the marketing that tells me I should be interested in this race.
A group of 3yo colts race over 12f to see whether or not they handle the undulations and unique course or stay the trip.
Whichever one wins then get an embarrassing tv presenter crow about the rich owner and how fantastic they are and wonderful.Talk about a snooze fest.
“My ideal would be the Guineas in mid May, convert the St James Palace to 10F and run the Derby, over the same course and distance as now, in mid July. ”
That to me seems an excellent idea
One you reduce the trip, where does it end? Do you do the same for the Oaks, the Leger, and then Ascot Gold Cup?
It’s the tail wagging the dog……changing the sport to suit the breeders is going down a fools road. They knew the score when coming in, stop trying to please them.Stamina, endurance should be admired and more relevant; I shake my head in despair when you hear talk of ” they’ll become only a NH stallion”. Give your heads a wobble….
If converting the St James’s Palace means not having a mile Group 1 then No…
But I do like the idea of having a Group 1 three year old 1m2f race. Would it not be fairly easy to convert the 1m2f Group 3 Hampton Court into a Group 1? Possibly (if thought necessary) reducing the 1m4f Group 2 King Edward to a Group 3.
However, York have for many years now been trying to get Group 1 status for the Dante – not sure they’d be too pleased… And you’ll get the inevitable criticisms of the North being overlooked for the advantage of the South / Ascot again.
And
France would also complain it upsets the pattern. ie The new Royal Ascot 1m2f three year old Group 1 would clash with the 1m2f Prix Du Jockey Club and the new Derby time clashes with the 1m4f three year old Prix Du Jockey Club.
Value Is Everything- Total Posts 2553
Come on, CAS, threads can go off-topic. My three posts on here are the best on this thread- It’s all about opinions though
You should spin a few tunes in the Lounge, good people down there in the main. Might help you to chill out and not be so anal, no promises on that though I’m afraid.
Have a good day.
Have some respect, Tank.
Threads can go off topic if the subject has some relevance.
Not just because one person finds the thread boring and so deliberately changes topic..Value Is Everything- Total Posts 2553
The mods have left the posts and they run the show.
This is really no big deal and people need to learn to chill a bit- IMO
Load of fuss about fk all
The mods might leave it up, might not. I don’t care what they do.
Just asking you from one member to another to have some respect. Although I am getting the impression both you and Robbo only say and do stuff not because it is your opinion, but to be contrary and / or to get a reaction. So may be the mods have the right idea by ignoring you and we should all do the same.
Value Is EverythingCouple of observations.
The Grand Prix de Paris hasn’t been overlooked – at least one forumite had mentioned it prior to APRacing and I am sure many of us know a race that used to be 1m7f has been reduced to 1m4f in recent years as the French seemingly slowly move with the times from stamina to speed.
We do it over here too – the Goodwood Cup used to be 2m5f, now it is 2m.
The Queen’s Vase is shorter too.
That’s two examples just off the top of my head.
Secondly, I see numerous threads that don’t interest me – I don’t generally feel the need to say so, though, as it adds zero to the discussion and, as evident here, doesn’t go down too well with others.
I think it’s been a cracking thread with lots of varied, well-argued, opinions.
Finally, why are the breeders continually getting the blame for merely catering for the demand in a changing marketplace?
Blame the needs of the modern owner for the switch to precociousness and speed, not those who simply breed to meet demand.
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It's the "Millwall FC" of Point broadcasts: "No One Likes Us - We Don't Care"Good points Ian
Buyers do increasingly want a quicker return. Stayers need time to come good – at least into the middle of their three year old campaign. Therefore only natural many are drawn to horses at shorter trips. But – to carry that thought forwards – there is also a clammer for precocious two year olds as they give the quickest return. Does that mean the whole season should be changed so two year olds are the main feature? No of course not.
One thing we should still remember is: Ask any British flat owner which three year old race he /she wants to win more than any other and it’s still be The (1m4f) Derby.
Value Is Everything
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