Queen Mary 2016

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Viewing 9 posts - 46 through 54 (of 54 total)
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  • #1251665
    SeaBirdIISeaBirdII
    Participant
    • Total Posts 229

    Backed her, so I probably shouldn’t be complaining but I always find it very difficult to enjoy these Wesley Ward winners. Just can’t get rid of this suspicion of foul play. Wouldn’t mind it if such performance was an exception but there’s one like that pretty much every year, isn’t it? (Jealous Again, Strike The Tiger, No Nay Never, Hootenanny, Acapulco and now Lady Aurelia). I find it very hard to believe that Ward is unearthing an Arazi every year, especially when they are twice as muscular as the other horses in the race. And, the sad thing is most of these turn out to be completely useless as three year olds.

    I’ve always loved the game more than the money I make out of it, always will and wouldn’t want to have it any other way, so these niggling doubts about them winners always give rise to quite uncomfortable feelings in the aftermath.

    #1251686
    thejudge1thejudge1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2254

    Backed her, so I probably shouldn’t be complaining but I always find it very difficult to enjoy these Wesley Ward winners. Just can’t get rid of this suspicion of foul play. Wouldn’t mind it if such performance was an exception but there’s one like that pretty much every year, isn’t it? (Jealous Again, Strike The Tiger, No Nay Never, Hootenanny, Acapulco and now Lady Aurelia). I find it very hard to believe that Ward is unearthing an Arazi every year, especially when they are twice as muscular as the other horses in the race. And, the sad thing is most of these turn out to be completely useless as three year olds.

    I’ve always loved the game more than the money I make out of it, always will and wouldn’t want to have it any other way, so these niggling doubts about them winners always give rise to quite uncomfortable feelings in the aftermath.

    Well said Seabird :good:

    #1251694
    stilvi
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4525

    Backed her, so I probably shouldn’t be complaining but I always find it very difficult to enjoy these Wesley Ward winners. Just can’t get rid of this suspicion of foul play. Wouldn’t mind it if such performance was an exception but there’s one like that pretty much every year, isn’t it? (Jealous Again, Strike The Tiger, No Nay Never, Hootenanny, Acapulco and now Lady Aurelia). I find it very hard to believe that Ward is unearthing an Arazi every year, especially when they are twice as muscular as the other horses in the race. And, the sad thing is most of these turn out to be completely useless as three year olds.

    I’ve always loved the game more than the money I make out of it, always will and wouldn’t want to have it any other way, so these niggling doubts about them winners always give rise to quite uncomfortable feelings in the aftermath.

    But not so uncomfortable that it stops you betting? Surely making money out of something you feel uncomfortable about is basically contradicting the idea that making money is not so important as some sort of moral stance? By betting you are accepting what Ward is doing. Not sure how you can have it both ways?

    #1251710
    ivanjicaivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    Just watching the C4 recording from the day. As C4 gently bow out, the great Claire Balding treated us to a pearler today – “actually, looking down the former winners of the Queen Mary, it’s very rare, I can’t see a French trained winner, well certainly not going back to 1977…”.

    So, C4 can only bother to provide stats to their presenters going back to 1977 for a race that has been run since 1921. We can’t really blame Balding, can we? Although, she of all people will have heard of Marcel Boussac and Charles Semblat, and a glance down, well, wikipedia, would have shown her that the French have won this prize on one occasion. Ho hum. Let’s hope ITV have a bit more pride in their jobs.

    #1251737
    GingertipsterGingertipster
    Participant
    • Total Posts 26354

    Backed her, so I probably shouldn’t be complaining but I always find it very difficult to enjoy these Wesley Ward winners. Just can’t get rid of this suspicion of foul play. Wouldn’t mind it if such performance was an exception but there’s one like that pretty much every year, isn’t it? (Jealous Again, Strike The Tiger, No Nay Never, Hootenanny, Acapulco and now Lady Aurelia). I find it very hard to believe that Ward is unearthing an Arazi every year, especially when they are twice as muscular as the other horses in the race. And, the sad thing is most of these turn out to be completely useless as three year olds.

    I’ve always loved the game more than the money I make out of it, always will and wouldn’t want to have it any other way, so these niggling doubts about them winners always give rise to quite uncomfortable feelings in the aftermath.

    But not so uncomfortable that it stops you betting? Surely making money out of something you feel uncomfortable about is basically contradicting the idea that making money is not so important as some sort of moral stance? By betting you are accepting what Ward is doing. Not sure how you can have it both ways?

    imo Stilvi, it is essential to keep a punter’s betting completely seperate from feelings about anything else. I totally agree with Sea Bird (actually, I’d get rid of the word “niggling”). ;-)

    Ward has been a serial clenbuterol abuser under USA rules – a substance that can be used as a growth hormone…

    But Ward does not use it at all on his British runners – we know this precisely because… he says he doesn’t. :scratch:

    Here’s an old piece by David Ashforth:

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WARD+AND+THE+ISSUE+OF+DRUGS%3B+David+Ashforth+on+the+medication…-a0205955466

    Sorry, not saying he’s doing anything wrong in GB, but when someone has broken the rules multiple times I find it difficult to believe he’s always innocent.

    Wouldn’t stop me backing one of his if thinking it value. Still be hoping it lost.

    EDIT: Made similar comments last year, hadn’t realised these points had already been made on this thread. :good:

    value is everything
    #1251763
    thejudge1thejudge1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2254

    The Morning Line doing a full on suck up to Ward. Sickening actually.

    Until the media changes their tune and starts to view these performances with the suspicion they deserve nothing will ever change.

    Does anyone think Ward would have the success he had with two year olds if he had to train under British rules?

    #1251994
    ivanjicaivanjica
    Participant
    • Total Posts 817

    The Morning Line doing a full on suck up to Ward. Sickening actually.

    Until the media changes their tune and starts to view these performances with the suspicion they deserve nothing will ever change.

    Does anyone think Ward would have the success he had with two year olds if he had to train under British rules?

    Backed her, so I probably shouldn’t be complaining but I always find it very difficult to enjoy these Wesley Ward winners. Just can’t get rid of this suspicion of foul play. Wouldn’t mind it if such performance was an exception but there’s one like that pretty much every year, isn’t it? (Jealous Again, Strike The Tiger, No Nay Never, Hootenanny, Acapulco and now Lady Aurelia). I find it very hard to believe that Ward is unearthing an Arazi every year, especially when they are twice as muscular as the other horses in the race. And, the sad thing is most of these turn out to be completely useless as three year olds.

    I’ve always loved the game more than the money I make out of it, always will and wouldn’t want to have it any other way, so these niggling doubts about them winners always give rise to quite uncomfortable feelings in the aftermath.

    But not so uncomfortable that it stops you betting? Surely making money out of something you feel uncomfortable about is basically contradicting the idea that making money is not so important as some sort of moral stance? By betting you are accepting what Ward is doing. Not sure how you can have it both ways?

    imo Stilvi, it is essential to keep a punter’s betting completely seperate from feelings about anything else. I totally agree with Sea Bird (actually, I’d get rid of the word “niggling”). ;-)

    Ward has been a serial clenbuterol abuser under USA rules – a substance that can be used as a growth hormone…

    But Ward does not use it at all on his British runners – we know this precisely because… he says he doesn’t. :scratch:

    Here’s an old piece by David Ashforth:

    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/WARD+AND+THE+ISSUE+OF+DRUGS%3B+David+Ashforth+on+the+medication…-a0205955466

    Sorry, not saying he’s doing anything wrong in GB, but when someone has broken the rules multiple times I find it difficult to believe he’s always innocent.

    Wouldn’t stop me backing one of his if thinking it value. Still be hoping it lost.

    EDIT: Made similar comments last year, hadn’t realised these points had already been made on this thread. :good:

    Ward is on record as saying he uses clenbuterol to aid breathing. The BHA clarified the uses: “Clenbuterol dilates the airways and is likely to give a horse an advantage on raceday, so we wouldn’t want it present then. If it is used on a long-term basis it can also have an anabolic effect, indirectly building muscle, although, unless large doses are administered, the anabolic effect would probably be minimal, even with a lot of exposures. A positive test result would trigger automatic disqualification of the horse and a penalty for the trainer.”

    This would suggest it is highly unlikely Ward is, as you have suggested, using it as a growth hormone.

    #1252158
    Miss WoodfordMiss Woodford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1352

    Steroids are forbidden in US racing and have been for several years. All American racehorses are subject to random drug testing. Clenbuterol is not a growth hormone, neither is Lasix. Accusing a trainer of using illegal substances without any sort of evidence other than “his horses look bigger than our horses” is absurd.

    #1252251
    thejudge1thejudge1
    Participant
    • Total Posts 2254

    Steroids are forbidden in US racing and have been for several years. All American racehorses are subject to random drug testing. Clenbuterol is not a growth hormone, neither is Lasix. Accusing a trainer of using illegal substances without any sort of evidence other than “his horses look bigger than our horses” is absurd.

    It’s not absurd at all. Not when you consider all the doping scandals that have been around lately. Or have you stopped reading the papers?

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