Queen Mary 2016

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This topic contains 53 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by thejudge1 thejudge1 3 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #1251622
    thejudge1
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    I see this was posted on another forum:

    WESLEY WARD’S historic sortie from the US to Royal Ascot was almost grounded after his licence was suspended for the latest in a collection of medication violations that would provoke astonishment in Britain but is regarded much less seriously in the US.

    The day after Cannonball was narrowly beaten in the Group 1 Golden Jubilee Stakes on the final day of the Royal meeting, the American trainer began a 15-day suspension for breaching a threshold limit for clenbuterol, a bronchodilator used to improve breathing.

    All of Ward’s Royal Ascot runners were drug tested and the results were negative, but the appearance of US-trained horses in Britain raises questions about the BHA’s regulatory response to the long-term use of clenbuterol in other jurisdictions, while the catalogue of drug infringements racked up by Ward, and the penalties imposed for them, provide striking evidence of the contrasting attitudes to equine medication in the US and UK.

    Ward made history when Strike The Tiger won the Windsor Castle Stakes and Jealous Again, subsequently bought by Sheikh Mohammed, won the Queen Mary Stakes, but a positive test returned after Notonthesamepage’s victory in the $100,000 Spectacular Bid Stakes at Gulfstream Park in January almost scuppered Ward’s Ascot plans.

    Connections requested a second test, which confirmed the presence of clenbuterol above the permitted threshold. In Britain, clenbuterol is a prohibited substance and Notonthesamepage would have been automatically disqualified.

    The Gulfstream Park stewards did not disqualify Notonthesamepage nor redistribute the purse, but fined Ward $1,000 and, against a background of multiple previous infringements, suspended him for 15 days. It was decided that the suspension would not start until after Royal Ascot.

    In the US, clenbuterol is categorised as a class 3 substance, one less likely to affect a horse’s performance than class 1 or 2 drugs but in the same category as anabolic steroids”

    Widely used in training – it has been suggested that 95 per cent of racehorses in California are trained on it – clenbuterol’s presence on raceday in the US, above a threshold limit, is an offence.

    Dr Tim Morris, the BHA’s director of equine science and welfare, said: “We don’t know how widely used clenbuterol is in Britain but our testing programme suggests that it is not a big feature of training here.

    “Clenbuterol dilates the airways and is likely to give a horse an advantage on raceday, so we wouldn’t want it present then. If it is used on a long-term basis it can also have an anabolic effect, indirectly building muscle, a positive test result would trigger automatic disqualification of the horse and a penalty for the trainer.”

    The penalty depends on the circumstances of the drug’s administration but Morris indicated that, if it was one of a series of offences or there was evidence of long-term administration with a view to improving a horse’s performance, a major penalty could be expected.

    This raises the question of whether or not horses trained abroad, legally and routinely given clenbuterol, should be allowed to race in Britain, given that the long-term anabolic effect of the drug may give such horses an advantage.

    Does cast doubt on the “fantastic” performances of his horses imo. But while the public still lap it up, and the channel team fawn over his horses, little will be done.

    #1251623
    steeplechasing
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    It can seem curmudgeonly to question a spellbinding performance like that, but logic suggests it merits some objective analysis.

    She does look a very strong filly, if not tall, and perhaps she is just freakish in her build at that age. Although Lasix is permitted in the States, I don’t know what else trainers can use, especially on horses not in competition.

    Lasix alone would allow you to work a horse beyond the stress levels of unmedicated horses; that alone could help build muscle, but at that age, I wouldn’t have thought it would have made such a difference.

    Anyway, barring proof positive, perhaps we should just enjoy the filly and look forward to her next race.

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1251625
    steeplechasing
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    thejudge – my post crossed with your latest one: a steroid based drug would explain a lot

    Never argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience, then onlookers might not be able to tell the difference. https://lazybet.com/

    #1251634
    thejudge1
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    thejudge – my post crossed with your latest one: a steroid based drug would explain a lot

    Yes mate. Actually if it was up to me (thank god it’s not) I would ban any overseas runners until their countries get in line with British drug testing laws under which our racing is run.

    Although that would obviously massively detract from the meeting as a whole, it would at least make it a level playing field. Our british two year olds simply can’t compete with that. I recall last year Euston Angel was a serious horse that I really fancied for the queen mary but she had no hope against that beast. They got their revenge in the Nunthorpe although I feel the massive effort expended having to reel that filly in has cost Mecca’s angel this year as she simply doesn’t look the same filly.

    Interesting to discover as well that Ward has even been found guilty of transgressing the famously lax american drug rules.

    #1251636
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
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    The punters know the score with these Welsey Ward fillies.

    You can either boycott the race, or plan for it and get money on the one that you think is his leading contender as soon as possible.

    I was accused yesterday of being smug and basing my post race analysis on what I said coming into the race.

    What can I say to that?

    I put this filly up on 23rd April and put up the horse who finished 2nd today, as my saver at 8/1.

    All I can say then is………………………………….nothing. Maybe that way I won’t upset anybody.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251637

    goreisking
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    Judge is just sad he backed a donkey and the superstar hackeeeeeedddd up! Now he says shes a druggie…in case you didnt know she would be tested after the race :good:

    #1251639
    thejudge1
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    Judge is just sad he backed a donkey and the superstar hackeeeeeedddd up! Now he says shes a druggie…in case you didnt know she would be tested after the race :good:

    Goresking your lack of intelligence is simply breathtaking and shines through in everything you write.

    #1251640
    thejudge1
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    The punters know the score with these Welsey Ward fillies.

    You can either boycott the race, or plan for it and get money on the one that you think is his leading contender as soon as possible.

    I was accused yesterday of being smug and basing my post race analysis on what I said coming into the race.

    What can I say to that?

    I put this filly up on 23rd April and put up the horse who finished 2nd today, as my saver at 8/1.

    All I can say then is………………………………….nothing. Maybe that way I won’t upset anybody.

    Steve, it’s more than just about the punters and whether you win or lose money on the race.

    It’s the integrity of the sport which if the people in charge cared about, they wouldn’t allow these Wesley Ward runners to participate.

    But we see the same situation in pretty much every sport. People still swoon over Usain Bolt’s performances. They fawn at the feet of Djokovic.

    Until people stand up and say “Enough is enough” we don’t want drugs in our sport anymore, this will continue to happen.

    #1251644

    goreisking
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    Judge is just sad he backed a donkey and the superstar hackeeeeeedddd up! Now he says shes a druggie…in case you didnt know she would be tested after the race :good:

    Goresking your lack of intelligence is simply breathtaking and shines through in everything you write.

    Pretty sure I have given you plenty of winners. Im telling you they are certs and your backing against them becuase of your little ego. I guess one day you will get rich :yahoo:

    My lack of intelligence? How can someone who isnt as rich as another man say he is not intelligent? :good:

    #1251646
    St Nicholas Abbey
    St Nicholas Abbey
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    • Total Posts 127

    Judge is just sad he backed a donkey and the superstar hackeeeeeedddd up! Now he says shes a druggie…in case you didnt know she would be tested after the race :good:

    Goresking your lack of intelligence is simply breathtaking and shines through in everything you write.

    Pretty sure I have given you plenty of winners. Im telling you they are certs and your backing against them becuase of your little ego. I guess one day you will get rich :yahoo:

    My lack of intelligence? How can someone who isnt as rich as another man say he is not intelligent? :good:

    Well, I’m on the clever side but I’m certainly not rich. One’s bank account doesn’t reflect one’s IQ.

    #1251647
    thejudge1
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    Judge is just sad he backed a donkey and the superstar hackeeeeeedddd up! Now he says shes a druggie…in case you didnt know she would be tested after the race :good:

    Goresking your lack of intelligence is simply breathtaking and shines through in everything you write.

    Pretty sure I have given you plenty of winners. Im telling you they are certs and your backing against them becuase of your little ego. I guess one day you will get rich :yahoo:

    My lack of intelligence? How can someone who isnt as rich as another man say he is not intelligent? :good:

    Well, I’m on the clever side but I’m certainly not rich. One’s bank account doesn’t reflect one’s IQ.

    If it did (and probably does) Goreisking would read 0.00 ;-)

    #1251650
    St Nicholas Abbey
    St Nicholas Abbey
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    • Total Posts 127

    Interesting point about the clenbuterol. I’m no equine vet and perhaps they know something I don’t, but I would question the wisdom of using a beta-blocker as a long-term measure in racehorses since it has been shown to worsen pulmonary function in humans and in horses; some researchers suggest using it for no longer than two weeks to avoid these effects.

    In studies, clenbuterol has been found to reduce narrowing of the airways in response to histamine in comparison to a placebo, but several treadmill studies have found no improvement in performance with its use. It’s also worth noting that clenbuterol doesn’t seem to have much effect in normal horses (that is, those who do not suffer with allergic airway disease) – but it’s estimated that up to 1/3 of racehorses in training DO suffer with allergic airway disease. In those horses, the use of clenbuterol may be genuinely therapeutic rather than merely performance enhancing.

    There ARE anabolic effects reported with clenbuterol in humans and horses – but in horses these effects are only seen at higher doses (2.4ug/kg twice daily), which is significantly higher than the lower doses used by most racehorse trainers. Additionally, the anabolic effects noted at the higher dose also seemed to wane by 2 weeks in one notable study, so I think any benefit it might have in this sense is unclear.

    Clenbuterol is, as far as I am aware, banned on racedays in the USA with variable withdrawal periods dependent on state (I think it’s usually less than 72 hours). Obviously frusemide (Lasix/Salix) IS allowed on raceday across the pond and that bothers me more. Although it’s used predominantly for its diuretic effects to reduce blood pressure within the lungs and reduce the severity of EIPH (exercise-induced pulmonary haemorrhage), I know that frusemide does have some airway-expanding effects in some species. I honestly don’t know if the same applies to horses.

    I see it as no coincidence that the States breeds some of the most unsound Thoroughbreds in the world, when they are permitted to race on so many medications. Personally I can’t wait until things move on and there is a greater crackdown on the use of drugs in racehorses for reasons other than bona fide medical treatment.

    #1251658
    stevecaution
    stevecaution
    Blocked
    • Total Posts 8281

    The punters know the score with these Welsey Ward fillies.

    You can either boycott the race, or plan for it and get money on the one that you think is his leading contender as soon as possible.

    I was accused yesterday of being smug and basing my post race analysis on what I said coming into the race.

    What can I say to that?

    I put this filly up on 23rd April and put up the horse who finished 2nd today, as my saver at 8/1.

    All I can say then is………………………………….nothing. Maybe that way I won’t upset anybody.

    Steve, it’s more than just about the punters and whether you win or lose money on the race.

    It’s the integrity of the sport which if the people in charge cared about, they wouldn’t allow these Wesley Ward runners to participate.

    But we see the same situation in pretty much every sport. People still swoon over Usain Bolt’s performances. They fawn at the feet of Djokovic.

    Until people stand up and say “Enough is enough” we don’t want drugs in our sport anymore, this will continue to happen.

    I get the point about the drugs and it’s something we should be thinking about longer term if we don’t want to see these juvenile races won by horses having a huge physical advantage.

    Today’s runner up would have been a nice winner in her own right in another year.

    I was just saying that, while nobody is willing to take a stand against the use of chemicals, then, as a punter you can choose to cash in on that.

    The money might be “dirty” in some people’s eyes but bookies money is always nice to be spending.

    Thanks for the good crack. Time for me to move on. Be lucky.

    #1251659
    Ben_Bernanke
    Ben_Bernanke
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    • Total Posts 638

    Yeah I like Steve’s notion, though it’s a bit dodgy that a foreign raider can have an advantage through the previous taking of drugs banned in this country, we’d be silly not to take advantage of this known fact.

    Sadly for me I’ve backed 2 Ward horses at Ascot, Sunset Glow last year and don’t remember the name of the other one, both came 2nd :cry:

    #1251664
    thejudge1
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    In my experience most Ward runners are quite ordinary, just that when he does get one that’s ahead of the pack, it’s way way ahead

    so yes you can take advantage of it, just that it’s a question of shifting out the wheat from the chaff

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