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"andyod" wrote: As I said before,keep away from the Ballydoyle yard until proof that the older horses are healthy.The 2yo’s seem free of the "problem".
The only problem is they’re not fit 1st time out. Obviously we’ll learn more from the runs of Steinbeck and Lillie Langtry.
I think I’ve spotted the problem.
THEY’RE NOT GOOD ENOUGH.
There got that off my chest.
Do expect a bold run from the 2yo’s in the Coventry"thehorsesmouth" wrote:
As I said before,keep away from the Ballydoyle yard until proof that the older horses are healthy.The 2yo’s seem free of the "problem".
The only problem is they’re not fit 1st time out. Obviously we’ll learn more from the runs of Steinbeck and Lillie Langtry.
Perhaps there is something amiss, but Beethoven’s run a cracker
Paco Boy, who looks as good as ever this year
I think Paco Boy is actually better than ever this year, and Hannon thinks the same. And several of AOB’s big hopes have been lukewarm first-time-out, so I think there is a good chance RVW will not be in the first 2. In fact, maybe not even the first 3 because I think Dalghar could be a solid e/w – ARD has an excellent record at Ascot.
Not a bad call Ole!
‘Cept ‘Dalgahar’ had amore on his mind when he saw ‘Goldi’…those randy French!
She must have been missing her lasix to let them get that close!
It shows a problem when nothing runs as expected.
Rip Van Winkle drifted, Steinbeck drifted….what on earth are you talking about?
When was the last time that Aidan could not get a horse(any horse) ready for Ascot Aidan? "Drifting" is the popular euphemism for "problem". In the Derby they scratched the fav. rather than let him "drift" any further.When being told to keep him in for a few days it was decided to put him away for the autumn. When was Aidan not able to get anything to catch his pacemaker in the derby? And today the pacemaker could not even get to the front in the St.James’s Palace Stakes.Johnny was looking round for him!When did Ballydoyle have a 2yo ridden by Murtagh start at 20/1 at Ascot and be beaten a short head?Sooner or later somebody has to say we don’t know what to expect from the runners from Ballydoyle.Things are so lost that two claimers were put up today (at Ascot!) in the hope that they,who are probably the morning riders would get a response from the horses.Incidentally they had three in the bottom four in that race(St James’s Palace Stakes). And Makfi(the other horse) was found to be ill.Now you tell me Ballydoyle does not have a "drifting" issue.
I firmly believe that Paco Boy could never beat a fit and well Goldikova if he went for home before her. The only horse she’s let past when on her game was Zarkava. Paco Boy isn’t in that league.
How does Rip Van Winkle look finished based on that? Every man and his dog knew he’d had problems in preparation and would improve considerably on whatever he did today.
Agreed. So close yet so far for Paco Boy.
Firmly believe they are focused on the Breeders’ Cup Classic for RVW.
If they didnt run St Nicholas Abbey because he was sick, why on earth would they run Rip Van Winkle if they knew there was a problem.
Last time when there was a bug in the yard O’Brien shut the stable down for a few weeks….why wouldnt he do it now?
As for the Derby pacemaker…there are actually plenty of examples…Dylan Thomas made the running at 20/1 and no Ballydoyle horse caught him, The Great Gatsby made the running as an outsider and no Ballydoyle horse caught him either…
You are talking absolute nonsense and it is pretty tiresome – particularly when you are ignoring the winners they are banging in in Ireland (double on Sunday). Those claimers have ridden in Group 1s and Classics in Ireland over the last few seasons – that is O’Briens style.
When was the last time that Aidan could not get a horse(any horse) ready for Ascot Aidan? "Drifting" is the popular euphemism for "problem". In the Derby they scratched the fav. rather than let him "drift" any further.When being told to keep him in for a few days it was decided to put him away for the autumn. When was Aidan not able to get anything to catch his pacemaker in the derby? And today the pacemaker could not even get to the front in the St.James’s Palace Stakes.Johnny was looking round for him!When did Ballydoyle have a 2yo ridden by Murtagh start at 20/1 at Ascot and be beaten a short head?Sooner or later somebody has to say we don’t know what to expect from the runners from Ballydoyle.Things are so lost that two claimers were put up today (at Ascot!) in the hope that they,who are probably the morning riders would get a response from the horses.Incidentally they had three in the bottom four in that race(St James’s Palace Stakes). And Makfi(the other horse) was found to be ill.Now you tell me Ballydoyle does not have a "drifting" issue.
Tiresome you say Aidan not as tiresome as the running of the 3yo’s. Did Dylan Thomas start at 100/1? If he was the pacemaker I don’t recall Aidan under estimating a horse so badly. I thought he was just one runner of many that year.However you must explain how the 3yo’s are running so poorly and eratically.We will watch At First Sight for the Irish Derby.I am at least attempting to explain and excuse the poor form of the classic horses. You choose to ignore the problem.Putting SNA away for a slight pulled muscle is hardly logical now is it? Especially if he was working so well he should have been a certainty for the Derby.I am talking about the A team, not the no namers you refer to in Ireland.You will get one good run from horses in a yard with the bug. As regards Rip van Winkle I have confined my remarks to the 3yo’s,perhaps the bug is spreading to the older horses.Time will tell. To cure the problem you must first accept it.How do you explain the running of Steinbeck at Ascot? Did he run up to your expectations?Did Midas Touch impress you in the Derby? Were you pleased with Cape Blanco in France? Did you expect more from Janvermeer? Where is Mikhail Glinka and Joshua Tree? I had such high hopes for the yard during the winter.Tell me about the finish of the St James’s Palace Stakes again; were you impressed?Sean never did get to the front on the "pacemaker" What did Aidan say after that race? I missed it. Ballydoyle is known for horses progressing from race to race but not this year. Since you are the expert why not give me your evaluation of the running of these horses and the disapperance of SNA until the fall,having been prepared for the Guineas.I feel sure your explaination won’t be as tiresome as mine and a lot more insightful I trust.
Sheesh Andy, you’re missing the point. If there was a problem as you put it which I’m assuming you mean bug virus etc. why would they be scoring regular winners in Ireland. O’Brien has a 17% strike rate there and seven winners in the last 14 days. Not great but surely no indication that there is a problem. The majority of horses you mention just were not up to the task in the races you described above, in some other instances there can be found legitimate excuses for not running up to form.
As I write this a Godolphin horse wins the Hunt Cup, and it looks like the World Cup favorite gets beat by a backwater country like Switzerland (game not completely over). 25 grp.1 winners in a season is a once in a lifetime achievement. The Abdullahs, Maktoums and Aga Khans of the world are no backnumbers and have something to say when it comes to scooping these prestigious prizes. Wildenstein Wertheimer, Moyglare, Cheveley et.al. still bring thru some very talented horses as well.
Big money in the case of Ballydoyle is no guarantee for permanent success.
Swings and roundabouts as they say in Britain. In Ballydoyle’s case the swing might be shorter, only time will tell.How do you explain the running of Steinbeck at Ascot? Did he run up to your expectations?Did Midas Touch impress you in the Derby?
You overlook Beethoven’s brave effort. Mida’s Touch was always going to be too slow for a Derby. He won a poor Derrinstown, where the others came back to him as much as anything else.
Beethoven was in the last four.He beat a sick horse and his stable companions.A brave effort? You must be joking.Is that good enough for Ballydoyle?It may be but not for me.Cape Blanco was good enough to win the Dante. Normally considered a goodish class of Derby trial.Midas Touch set a very good time for the Derringstown easily reeling in At First Sight. But they are not consistent,not improving from race to race. To say they are not good enough is one answer.However based on last years tyo form I have to disagree.Three out of the first four in the Dewhurst.First in the Racing Post.First in the Juddmont. Not good enough? I don’t think so.Not well enough? I think so.
andydod wrote…"Beethoven was in the last four.He beat a sick horse and his stable companions.A brave effort? You must be joking.
Midas Touch set a very good time for the Derringstown"
It was easy to see Beethoven ran well. He was bang there until visibly tiring in the last furlong. It was his first run and I’m sure Ballydoyle will have been delighted with him.
I don’t care what time Mida’s Touch ran in the Derrinstown, he’s a boat.
Now, Steinbeck is a different kettle of fish. He. Jan Vermeer and Cape Blanco HAVE all ran poorly with no visible excuse. There may be something amiss, you could well be right. The run of Lillie Langtry will tell us more. And, of course, Fencing Master.
Andy, you should know you are coming off as a Ballydoyle-apologist.
It seems to me that you are attributing Ballydoyle’s failures in the big G1 races to either a virus in the stable or an "unknowable" factor. It seems to me that most others are attributing Ballydoyle’s failures in many of the big G1 races to their horses not being good enough, despite the fact that AOB has hyped them. Now just because AOB has won G1 after G1 in other years, does not mean it will happen every year. This year, he thinks his horses are very good, but other than FAG, he is
thus far
wrong. Now it is possible that SNA/Steinbeck/JVermeer/CBlanco/RVW will eventually come good (or show their form of last year), and it is possible that they won’t, but what is undeniable is that during the first part of the season, they have simply not been as good as AOB thought/said. And this is where you seem to have a problem; you cannot accept that AOB’s horses have failed to live up to the hype. Rather than admitting that AOB or his horses have any shortcomings, you seem to be clutching at straws to explain the failures.
If there was a virus/bug/malady, AOB would definitely use that to excuse the poor performances. Conclusion: no virus. If there is some "unknowable" factor that has prevented AOB’s genius from shining through this year, then there doesn’t seem to be much point to our analyses of statistics, pedigrees, form, trends, intuition and conformation. We should just sit back and watch the irrational events unfold.
I think all this really shows is that (1) AOB – while immensely talented – is very fallible, contrary to the hype from certain quarters, and (2) just as you have purple patches (25 G1s in a year!!!!! no matter how good you are, things have to go your way for that), you also have…non-purple (?) patches.
The fact is these horses are group one horses. Some have won multiple group races. SNA is a group one horse I believe,so also Janvermeer.The other group races in England were of the highest quality. This year they are all emptying when the pressure is on in the final furlong.If it were only one horse it would be different but it seems to be all of the high fliers so to speak.SNA who was the most brilliant tyo last year failed in the guineas and was put away for the autumn. I can’t believe that Fencingmaster is now a listed horse, not even running in group races at Ascot. We will see what the rest of the week holds I know I would be shocked if Age of Aquarius is not tailed off.That is based on the running of RVW which was hardly impressive.Bright Horizon is from the B team and is running in a handicap. That too will be interesting to watch. Since he is probably from a different barn he might run honestly.On a side issue where have Heffernan and ODonoghue gone? Smullen is down to ride Cabaret.
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