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Phoenix Stakes 2009

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  • #12173
    thehorsesmouth
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    • Total Posts 5552

    I’d say the market will indicate the level of confidence between the 2 favourites. Personally I think it’s a 2 horse race. I backed Walk On Bye last time out and was extremely impressed by her ability to handle the ground, her turn of foot and her attitude. Alfred Nobel was not as impressive as Walk On Bye when beating In Some Respect and King Ledley, butit wouldn’t surprise me if he has improved alot again from that run. I’ll probably back Walk On Bye but if there was massive confidence behind Alfred Nobel I might have to hold fire.

    #240950
    Ian
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    • Total Posts 1415

    I think it looks pretty trappy. Not convinced there are any future superstars in the field.

    #240967
    colinf
    Member
    • Total Posts 144

    Fozzy Stack was leaning away from this race when interviewed after she won two weeks ago reasoning that it may come too soon for her.
    The threes that was available about the colt earlier in the week looks big now.

    #241014
    Himself
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    • Total Posts 3777

    The filly, Walk On Bye, won well in her last race and could prove a tough nut to crack, but Aidan O’Brien has a particular likng for this event and has already won it with the likes of Mastercraftsman and George Washington.

    I backed Alfred Nobel last time out, and must admit he seemed to run a bit green.

    Nevertheless, in the belief that he is still improving – allied to Aiden’s record in this race – it would be folly not to stick him in what appears to be a two horse race.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #241033
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    The filly, Walk On Bye, won well in her last race and could prove a tough nut to crack, but Aidan O’Brien has a particular likng for this event and has already won it with the likes of Mastercraftsman and George Washington.

    I backed Alfred Nobel last time out, and must admit he seemed to run a bit green.

    Nevertheless, in the belief that he is still improving – allied to Aiden’s record in this race – it would be folly not to stick him in what appears to be a two horse race.

    The smart bet here would be to take the 8/13 insurebet with PaddyPower and if your wrong every chance he would finish 2nd and you get your stake back.

    The thread got me intersted in this race so I spent a bit of time studying the videos.

    The first thing that jumped out at me was the horse Alfred Noble beat looked like a sure fire future winner. When I brought up his form he had already won a race since ten so that put paid to that idea :lol:

    The fact his form has been franked already can only be a plus but I fancy Stacky’s filly migt just have the edge on him.

    There’s not a lot between them on form but they are two different types of horses.

    Alfred Nobel went for home over a furlong out last time and while he settled the issue very quickly there was no instant turning on of the tap there. A big strong looking horse he just had too much power for his rivals.
    Funny head carriage but didn’t seem to be stopping him.

    Walk on Bye is quite he opposite and her jockey was in no rush to hit the front. He kept her covered up for as long as he could, pressed the botton and she swwooed past everything to win easily.

    AOB will want to make this race as much of a stamina test as it is a speed test. The question is does he have the amuntion to do so. Beethoven and Air Chief Marshall couldn’t get Walk on Bye at it the last time they met and I doubt if they can do anything differently this time.

    I would imagine if none of those two are travelling too well at the 2 furlong marker Alfred Nobel won’t ang around,will take over and go for home.

    If Wayne Lordan can keep Walk on Bye out of trouble, hang on to her head as long as possible and follow through in Alfred Nobel slipstream I reckon she will do him for toe in the closing stages.

    Hope that didn’t scare you too much "H"
    :lol:

    #241035
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    in the short time I took to type that last post Alfred Nobel went from 8/13 to 2/5 on the insurebet market. :shock: You beeen reading my mind "H:? :wink:

    #241040
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    I agree with your pre race assessment of the two main protagonists, Fist – although ( naturally) I do hope the outcome is rather different to the one you envisage. I was thinking along the lines of Mastercraftsman/Art Connosieur from last year. A similar scenario perhaps?

    As for the insurance. Yes, wise, and indeed, prudent – but I’m a punter at heart ( hope springs eternal and all that ), so I’ll leave the insuring to the men in suits and would be accountants out there. :wink:

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #241056
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Well, I couldn’t have got that more wrong if I tried. Well done "H" :wink:

    #241096
    wallace-no7
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    This is just another indication of the mass of talent that is going through Ballydoyle every season.

    Alfred Nobel looked distinctly average and now all of a sudden has burst onto the scene winning Group 1 cosily in conditions that mark him as a very classy animal.

    For me though the race revolves around the other 2yr olds that could have run.

    Steinbeck: Has been left to develop and now only the Dewhurst looks likely…with no run before hand. I can only imagine how good this animal could be.

    Cape Blanco: Looked immense in the Tyros even if the opposition wasnt great he still preformed very smartly.

    Viscount Nelson: Another one that they think the world of even if he hasnt shown as much as the above….surely top of the ground will show him up to be a classy animal.

    Cabaret: Another amazing increase of Class in a short space of time destroying the field with ease and Nick Mordin did a great piece in the The Irish Field over the class he thinks she has.

    Await the Dawn: A Naas maiden winner that showed everything you needed in a debut victory. Significantly this is a maiden targeted by Ballydoyle for decent animals as Masterofthehorse went very close last year to Gan Amhras.

    The class they have shown this early on this terrible ground in Ireland has left much to ponder for many on how good these animals could be on proper ground. Its very early in the 2yr old season yet but all indications are that these 2yr olds from Ballydoyle are looking stronger than ever. Certantly AOB has cracked these new crop of Coolmore stallions as the improvement shown from race to race is clearly very impressive.

    Hopefully Banyan Tree can put up a good preformance tomoro night….really like this animal and is bred to be a Star

    #241100
    Zarkava
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4691

    Seems that every time I open my eyes there’s yet a new bit of 2-year-old form to wince at. I have a feeling that any second I’ll wake up and find out that it’s all just a very bad nightmare.

    #241104
    wallace-no7
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    We will know all Zarkava in a couple of weeks.

    Prix Morny Canford Cliffs vs Alfred Nobel…tell you all you need to know.

    After another shocking preformance from another highly touted French horse today in the form of that Dupre/Soullimon 2yr old at Massions Laffiete its looks likely that it will be a battle between the 2 of them.

    Although maybe Head can spoil the party

    #241106
    Zarkava
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    • Total Posts 4691

    Special Duty and Sorciere could easily be high class.

    #241126
    Himself
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    • Total Posts 3777

    On a strict line of form through Air Chief Marshall, Alfred Nobel still has a bit to find on Canford Cliffs ( still the best two year old seen out thus far, imo) – and should they meet, I am confident that the Hannon colt would emerge triumphant.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #241140
    darren83
    Participant
    • Total Posts 7231

    Though Alfred Nobel won well and is improving i feel Steinbeck is the best 2yo at Ballydoyle.The way he won on debut was impressive and they are taking there time with him. And i started backing him the 2000 Guineas as well.

    I backed Canford Cliffs at Ascot i got 7/2 on Ante post but why did Steinbeck not run at Ascot.

    Zarkava a question for you.When is that unbeaten french horse running again it is called Colinal

    #241142
    Himself
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3777

    I backed Canford Cliffs at Ascot i got 7/2 on Ante post but why did Steinbeck not run at Ascot.

    Simple.

    Canford Cliffs scared them away.

    Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning

    #241147
    wallace-no7
    Member
    • Total Posts 1511

    He hasnt run because he has got growth spurts and is only back cantering now.

    He was to run at Royal Ascot and in the Phoneix but obviously these Growing 2yr olds need time especially when they think he is a machine.

    #241148
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    • Total Posts 17716

    Though Alfred Nobel won well and is improving i feel Steinbeck is the best 2yo at Ballydoyle.The way he won on debut was impressive and they are taking there time with him. And i started backing him the 2000 Guineas as well.

    I backed Canford Cliffs at Ascot i got 7/2 on Ante post but why did Steinbeck not run at Ascot.

    Zarkava a question for you.When is that unbeaten french horse running again it is called Colinal

    Geez Darren 7/2? you were slow at catching on, We were all on at 6’s and 5’s :shock:

    AOB did claim Steinbeck was his best 2yo a few months ago. I believe the horse was let down suffering from growing pains and is being given some time to develop and that’s why he missed Ascot.

    I doubt if it would have mattered if he had gone to Ascot his form isn’t worth a pinch of **** to be honest.

    And this from Wallace "Prix Morny Canford Cliffs vs Alfred Nobel…tell you all you need to know" :shock:

    I don’t need to wait till then to know Canford Cliffs could give him 2st and beat him and I am not exagerating.

    This Alfred won well yesterday but all but one of the horses failed to act on the heavy ground. He beats his own stable companion who might be bordering on decent in heavy ground and we got AOB saying "This is a right horse" It was a bloody awful Group 1

    Aiden like the great Sir Michael Stoute never says much but unlike Sir Michael when he does say something he usually talks shyte :roll:

    You would never know what was going on at Ballydoyle but I hope for their sake they have some better 2yo’s, than we have seen so far, if they are expecting to take the first classic next season. A new Nijinsky is what they should be aiming for and that might not be good enough.

    As far as France goes? If he wants to beat Canford Cliffs they better take some big chains with them as the only way they will beat him if they can shackle his legs to the starting stalls. That might not work though as Richard Hughes claims the horse was born on the planet Ktypton :lol:

    From this you might surmise I like the horse and you would be right :P

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