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"You would never know what was going on at Ballydoyle but I hope for their sake they have some better 2yo’s, than we have seen so far, if they are expecting to take the first classic next season" – Fist
I think that they do. Cape Blanco and Steinbeck have been impressive and as for hims form not being worth anything, all he could do was beat them as he did and King Ledley was well beaten by Steinbeck.
"This Alfred won well yesterday but all but one of the horses failed to act on the heavy ground. He beats his own stable companion who might be bordering on decent in heavy ground and we got AOB saying "This is a right horse" It was a bloody awful Group 1" – Fist
May have been a weak renewal of the Phoenix but Alfred Nobel did win it in the style of a horse that was better than this field by some way, will surely pick up the National stakes if nothing turns up.
Fist your spot on about Canford Cliffs….he looks a smashing Colt but backing for the Guineas is playing with dynamite.
Canford Cliffs is a very mature 2yr old…..i dont need to cite the dozens of examples of smart 2yr olds doing nothing in there 3yr old career. While Canford could be the exception he will certantly face a much stiffer challenge that he did at Royal Ascot.
Bring me back to Art last year and they were raving about him until he got stuffed by the Top miler Mastercraftsman by 5l.
While i must admit your probaly right that Canford Cliffs will win the Morny i wouldnt be so sure if he went for the National/Dewhurst he do the same. His Royal Ascot form is very poor….all he beat where a bunch of no hopers a bit like Alfred Nobel but i wouldnt expect Group 1s to have any sort of Strength in Depth in Mid/Late July.
"You would never know what was going on at Ballydoyle but I hope for their sake they have some better 2yo’s, than we have seen so far, if they are expecting to take the first classic next season. A new Nijinsky is what they should be aiming for and that might not be good enough. "
Dont they still have to bring out full brothers to Sharmdal and Henrythenavigtor?
I think they look pretty decent this year…..Fillys and Colts.
They still have around 70 unraced juveniles to appear.
Some the stuff on here just goes to show how most of the debate on this place has fallen so low that things are let go slide.
Reference to Steinbeck missing the Coventry because they were afraid of the Hannon horse (when has a Ballydoyle colt dodged a challenge – surely highlighted this year by them willinging to take on Sea The Stars more than once) – failing to comment on the fact he missed the Railway Stakes and the Phoenix Stakes.
Reference to a Nijinsky type colt not being good enough – not even going to comment on that.
Using Air Chief Marshal as a direct form guide – imagine someone finding a big runner, fast ground Coventry Stakes compariable with a heavy ground Group 1 in a small enough field – being happy to use that as a solid guide to the relative merits of the opposition. Regarding Air Chief Marshal – the likes of Holy Roman Emperor, Oratorio, Rock Of Gibraltar were all well beaten in the Coventry for O’Brien yet turned into superstars.
CM will probably win the Morny and indeed the Middle Park Stakes (his two targets) but will be found out next year (like Three Valleys) when he takes on the proper National Stakes, Dewhurst etc winners in the Guineas. Why is he going for the Middle Park – probably the worst guide in recent years for the Guineas.
Dont they still have to bring out full brothers to Sharmdal and Henrythenavigtor?
Sexy breeding very rarely delivers.
Surely there not aiming at the Middle Park….
What a cop out that is…at least go for a proper Group 1…
National Stakes
Dewhurst
Prix Jean Luc De LagaderePlenty of options for them if they want to take on the best
Some the stuff on here just goes to show how most of the debate on this place has fallen so low that things are let go slide.
Using Air Chief Marshal as a direct form guide – imagine someone finding a big runner, fast ground Coventry Stakes compariable with a heavy ground Group 1 in a small enough field – being happy to use that as a solid guide to the relative merits of the opposition. Regarding Air Chief Marshal – the likes of Holy Roman Emperor, Oratorio, Rock Of Gibraltar were all well beaten in the Coventry for O’Brien yet turned into superstars.
It really has fallen low if you class the likes of Holy Roman Emperor and Oratorio as superstars.
I stand by what I said regarding Steinbeck missing the Coventry. The Ballydoyle team obviously hold that colt in high regard, and certainly weren’t about to shake its confidence by having him beaten out of sight by Richard Hannon’s " superstar "
Gambling Only Pays When You're Winning
Superstar might well be an exageration….but Holy Roman Emperor along with Teofilo were absolutely top class two year olds while Oratario won an Eclipse and an Irish Champion Stakes – either way the point was they ended up being the best from the Coventry runs despite been well beaten on the day.
Why has Steinbeck missed his other intended races the Railway Stakes and Phoenix Stakes? Is it not at all more likely that the reason for misses these races (and reportidly going to now miss the Irish National Stakes Group 1) is because there is something wrong with him? Or perhaps no….you are right they missed the Coventry because they were afraid of CM (who at that stage was a impressive maiden winner) and have intentionally missed major races since just to convince everyone there was something wrong.
Some the stuff on here just goes to show how most of the debate on this place has fallen so low that things are let go slide.
Using Air Chief Marshal as a direct form guide – imagine someone finding a big runner, fast ground Coventry Stakes compariable with a heavy ground Group 1 in a small enough field – being happy to use that as a solid guide to the relative merits of the opposition. Regarding Air Chief Marshal – the likes of Holy Roman Emperor, Oratorio, Rock Of Gibraltar were all well beaten in the Coventry for O’Brien yet turned into superstars.
It really has fallen low if you class the likes of Holy Roman Emperor and Oratorio as superstars.
I stand by what I said regarding Steinbeck missing the Coventry. The Ballydoyle team obviously hold that colt in high regard, and certainly weren’t about to shake its confidence by having him beaten out of sight by Richard Hannon’s " superstar "
I must be one of the few who believes that Steinbeck isn’t that good. Like all of the 2yos this year bar the Coventry runners, his form stinks. Have any of the horses he beat actually won races since?
I believe that O’Brien identified Steinbeck as an extremely early maturing type, talked him up and is now keeping him on the sidelines to make sure his reputation stays intact and therefore advertises Footstepsinthesand as a first-season sire.
Nowmally an apprentice can claim a 7lbs allowance. Yesterday ACM was beaten by Alfred Noble some two plus lengths. However the second, ACM, carried 7lbs over weight.(no allowance for an apprentice) So what do we make of the result?
No one has talked about Kingsfort for next year 2000 Guineas what do you guys think of this horse.The 2nd is running tonight and the 3rd won as well.Is Kingsfort the real deal.
"I believe that O’Brien identified Steinbeck as an extremely early maturing type, talked him up and is now keeping him on the sidelines to make sure his reputation stays intact and therefore advertises Footstepsinthesand as a first-season sire."
Cant believe that for a second espcially as the First Season Sire list doesnt lie and Steinbeck contribution has been 1/10 of the total winnings.
Coolmore have nothing to hide anyways….they dont bluff breeders…they race there horses hard and often in all the big races so much so that most are finished with nearly a quarter of the season to go.
No reason for me not to believe the growing pains so far….unless the horse doesnt do anything in his next few races then we might have a conspiracy
The devious Drudge O’Brien and the Coolmore Mafia The noble knight Sir Michael and the Lords and Ladies of Ballymacoll You guys should write a comic book for racing fans who don’t play games! Talk about fantasy!
- Total Posts 17716
Fist your spot on about Canford Cliffs….he looks a smashing Colt but backing for the Guineas is playing with dynamite.
Canford Cliffs is a very mature 2yr old…..i dont need to cite the dozens of examples of smart 2yr olds doing nothing in there 3yr old career. While Canford could be the exception he will certantly face a much stiffer challenge that he did at Royal Ascot.
Bring me back to Art last year and they were raving about him until he got stuffed by the Top miler Mastercraftsman by 5l.
While i must admit your probaly right that Canford Cliffs will win the Morny i wouldnt be so sure if he went for the National/Dewhurst he do the same. His Royal Ascot form is very poor….all he beat where a bunch of no hopers a bit like Alfred Nobel but i wouldnt expect Group 1s to have any sort of Strength in Depth in Mid/Late July.
"You would never know what was going on at Ballydoyle but I hope for their sake they have some better 2yo’s, than we have seen so far, if they are expecting to take the first classic next season. A new Nijinsky is what they should be aiming for and that might not be good enough. "
Dont they still have to bring out full brothers to Sharmdal and Henrythenavigtor?
I think Canford Cliffs is anything but very mature. He’s more like something out of a Tom and Jerry cartoon who would run straight through a wall if you aimed him at it.
I think they look pretty decent this year…..Fillys and Colts.
First off Canford Hills may look mature to you but I think you’re confusing that with natural ability. He’s really still a big baby who Richard Hughes found almost impossible to settle at Ascot.
I think it’s safe to say when Art, who had 2 prevoius wins under his belt, won the Coventry he was a much less hyper horse than this fellow.
He only needs to turn up in France to win and then he is off to see how he handles Newmarket in the Middle Park Stakes before he is put away for next years Guineas.
While neither race looked anything to write home about, the difference between what a Canford Cliffs did to his field and AOB quickening past his deperately ordinary stable companion was like chalk and cheese.
You say backing him for the Guineas is playing with dynamite. Well I’ve played with dynamite before and I’m still here
I think it will be the bookies who will waken up to the fact they were the ones playing with dynamite when they laid me 8’s and 7’s about the horse. All being well he will win just as easily in France as he did at Ascot and if you’re lucky they will offer 4/1 about the horse. Follow that up with a win at Newmarket and he’ll be 5/2 at best. The only thing that will stop him going odds on next year is the hope of the bookies he might not stay…..but he will and he will win.
If that gives you the impression I fancy him a bit then you’re not a bad judge
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The devious Drudge O’Brien and the Coolmore Mafia The noble knight Sir Michael and the Lords and Ladies of Ballymacoll You guys should write a comic book for racing fans who don’t play games! Talk about fantasy!
It’s an amazing fact about racing that punters have this nutty idea trainers are all liars who say things to the press with the idea of puting punters away. I sincerly doubt if SMS or Aiden O’Brien are sitting down hatching a plan to make up a fairy story so they can have a punt in the next at Newmarket.Mind you it’s pretty rich coming from a yank (I take it from your home base you are American?) that we should write a comic book.
Everything from the Phantom Punch (Clay V Liston) to 911 was a conspiracy with you guys.
And yes Virginia there is a Santa Clause and there is a tooth fairy. And there is a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow.All we have to do is believe hard enough and it will happen.! Don’t say it ain’t so please. Please, oh please, don’t. Incidentally Fyst we use the letter i not y in many words .Are we so wrong?
I think it will be the bookies who will waken up to the fact they were the ones playing with dynamite when they laid me 8’s and 7’s about the horse. 
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