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Perfect example of Spencer over doing it!

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  • #4935
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    Now listen, this is not a thread to have a go at Spencer, I am just of a very strong opinion that the guy often over does the waiting tactics when he doesn’t need to.

    Anyone who watches the 4:40 at Yarmouth will see exactly what I mean. He sat 2nd or 3rd last aboard the favourite Pairumani Princess for much of the journey, while main market rival Treason Trial sat stone cold last.

    As they rounded the home turn, it was visible that Hayley Turner aboard Treason Trial decided to make her move and it was well picked up by the commentator. Hayley pulled her horse out to the wide outside and made smooth progress towards the lead, while Spencer delyaed making his move for a least a furlong more.

    Treason Trial got to the front with about 100 yards to go and went on to win marginally, while Spencer, aboard the fav, ran on strong to finish 3rd, beaten about a length.

    You would have to say that from the furlong pole, maybe a bit more, both Spencer’s and Hayley’s mounts travelled just as fast, yet for me it was the fact that Hayley made her move that little bit earlier that won the day, while Jamie was content to ‘over doe’ the waiting tactics, for which he paid the price. If Jamie had of kicked the same time Hayley did I am in no doubt that his mount would have won.

    I never had a bet in the race and I actually think Jamie is a fantastic jockey. But in my opinion there is no arguement whatsoever that he over does the waiting tactics – sometimes it pays off and he is made to look a genius, sometimes he doesn’t quite get there and he is made to look a bit silly.

    Would love your thoughts,

    Mike

    #112556
    Flash
    Member
    • Total Posts 1144

    I think he gets it right more often than he doesn’t and he’s very affective at what he does.

    He’s a bit one dimensional though, great with a horse that needs to be waited with but I can’t help feeling those tactics don’t suit some of the horses he uses them on.

    #112557
    steveh31
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1922

    Never been a fan of jockeys who hold up though i know some horses have to but wouldnt it be better like america where you know if a horse is a front runner or off the pace. Do English jockeys do timings like US.

    Having said about Spencer he must know what hes doing or he wouldnt be champion jockey i suppose.

    #112558
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4713

    Now listen, this is not a thread to have a go at Spencer,

    Then why is it headed ‘Perfect example of Spencer over doing it!’?

    I’m not keen on the threads slagging off jockeys, particularly those which are clearly ‘talking through the pocket’, but please don’t tell us you are not ‘having a go’ at a jockey then promptly doing so over multiple paragraphs.

    Rob

    #112559
    steveh31
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1922

    Love these debates when someone slags someone off always leads to the one side or the other great to read.

    #112560
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    Now listen, this is not a thread to have a go at Spencer,

    Then why is it headed ‘Perfect example of Spencer over doing it!’?

    I’m not keen on the threads slagging off jockeys, particularly those which are clearly ‘talking through the pocket’, but please don’t tell us you are not ‘having a go’ at a jockey then promptly doing so over multiple paragraphs.

    Rob

    Oh there is always one that knit picks 8)

    It’s titled ‘Perfect example of Spencer over doing it’ because that is what the thread is about :roll: – that is not having a go at him, it’s an observation Rob.

    If I had started a thread, ‘Perfect example of why Horse 1 beat Horse 2’ then that wouldn’t mean it’s a thread praising horse 1, or indeed having a go at horse 2, it would be an overservation mate.

    My opinion of Jamie Spencer is that sometimes, he over does the waiting tactics on his mounts and the 4.40 was a great example of that – the horse that won, sat behind him and kicked much earlier, while he was content to sit and wait. This doesn’t mean I am having a go at him. He doesn’t become champion jockey for nothing, he doesn’t sit top of this years Championship for nothing, he is a great jockey and this thread was not intended to have a go at him. It was an observation Rob, that’a all.

    Mike

    And just to add to that, I said I never had a bet in the race and I said Spencer was a great jockey, so why you came up with the phrases, "clearly talking through their pocket" and "having a go at a jockey over multiple paragraphs" is beyond me.

    If you have a different opinon to me, then please offer it, don’t assume I was talking through my pocket when I had already stated I didn’t have a bet.

    #112561
    robnorth
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4713

    Oh there is always one that knit picks 8)

    Two points.

    I think it should be ‘nit’ rather than knit, but then that would be nit-picking!

    I didn’t accuse you of talking through your pocket.

    Rob

    #112562
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    Rob, i’ve just PM’d you – dont like having negative debate in public mate.

    However, I did PM you before I read your above message, but it certainly sounded like you did accuse me of talking through my pocket. You said something on the lines of you don’t like people slagging off jockeys, especally when it’s clear they are talking through their pockets.

    Mike

    #112564
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    Have to say Micky, the first time I read Rob’s post I understood what he was saying and he certainly was’nt personally accusing you. And anyway, from someone like Rob’s point of view does it really matter if you was talking through your pocket or not? The point is your critisizing him mate, personally I could’nt give a monkeys. :)

    I have nothing against these threads just thought I’d clear it up for you so we can get on with the debate.

    Ok, if I misread it then I apologise – thanks for your input.

    #112565
    aidanldrebin
    Member
    • Total Posts 171

    Hitchens at York on Tuesday. That was overdoing it on the delaying tactics as he had room until the buisness end of the race. When he decided to ask him the question he suddenly found himself behind a wall of horses and finished full of running in third.

    The weekend before he gave Red Evie a great ride yet if she had lost by a head it would have been a ‘disgraceful ride’. They are the margins he operates in.

    Of course it is harsh to slag Spencer off as he is one of the best jockeys but, he does over do the waiting tactics at times. For every Red Evie, there are three or four Hitchens.

    #112568
    MikkyMo73
    Member
    • Total Posts 1789

    Hitchens at York on Tuesday. That was overdoing it on the delaying tactics as he had room until the buisness end of the race. When he decided to ask him the question he suddenly found himself behind a wall of horses and finished full of running in third.

    The weekend before he gave Red Evie a great ride yet if she had lost by a head it would have been a ‘disgraceful ride’. They are the margins he operates in.

    Of course it is harsh to slag Spencer off as he is one of the best jockeys but, he does over do the waiting tactics at times. For every Red Evie, there are three or four Hitchens.

    Wish I had of summed it up like that :lol:

    That’s exactly my point – great jockey, but over does the waiting tactics on more occassion than he possibly should.

    People might find this strange, but I actually think he could learn a lot from Hayley Turners ride in that 4:40. For me, Hayley is one of the best hold up jockeys out there, she always delivers her charge in plenty of time in my opinion.

    Mike

    #112570
    davidjohnson
    Member
    • Total Posts 4491

    Regarding Pairumani Princess, I’d suggest you look on the ATR website at all of her runs this season. She does exactly the same in every race. She is a galloping sort that lacks a turn on foot at any trip. I believe she’s well up to winning a race or two off her current mark, but she won’t be carrying any of my cash until they ride her up with the pace.

    #112572
    strawbear
    Participant
    • Total Posts 219

    glad i don’t bet on the flat. never heard so many people slag off a champ jocky.
    i watched him the other night on atr at bath, on a fav, sat in 3rd last and let the winner come from behind him. did all the hollywooding, pulling the horse wide etc, finished close 2nd.
    then again, some mothers do ‘ev em

    #112578
    Kingston Town
    Member
    • Total Posts 1049

    There was a jockey in Australia (retired due to weight problems and then made more comebacks than Dame Nellie Melba, but I digress) and he was the regular rider for a good horse once that invariably came from last with a flashing sprint down the straight of any course he raced on.
    Unfortunately the jockey then rode every single other horse in the same manner – and wondered why he got beaten all the time. :lol:

    #112587
    Irish Stamp
    Member
    • Total Posts 3181

    SteveH – I presume that British jockeys do the timings like in the US – there was a feature on the Racing School in Newmarket which featured a few apprentices (the only one’s I remember being on where Kevin Ghunowa and Kylie Manser) and they had to time how fast they’d gone over a particular quarter and speed it up, slow it down etc. some where pretty iffy with the timings and others spot on.

    Martin

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