Home › Forums › Archive Topics › Trends, Research And Notebooks › Juvenile Hurdlers 2012/13
- This topic has 179 replies, 8 voices, and was last updated 13 years, 3 months ago by
Bachelors Hall.
- AuthorPosts
- June 5, 2012 at 09:31 #21940
Today marks the first appearance of this season’s crop of juvenile hurdlers. Granted it is typically only moderate sorts seen out at this time of year (although Katchit, Countrywide Flame and Barizan all appeared before September to name a select few) but I see no more appropriate time to start a thread on the subject.
Who’s going Juvenile hurdling? Who would you like to see Juvenile hurdling and what is made of those actually hurdling this season?
So far, I’ve only spotted one 3yo that has joined a top yard, namely <b>For Two</b> who has won his only start at Auteuil, has joined Paul Nicholls and will race in the Wylie colours. Many more suggestions would be most appreciated!
For my own amusement, I’ve been tracking down hurdling relations of this season’s juveniles and will share the findings on a race by race basis because why not. The horses will be listed in the order of their relative’s prestige although please note that some of these relatives are much more distant that others;-
Choisirez – Binocular
Can Do Les – Any Given Day / Vintage Crop
Dougie Boy – Windbound Lass
All Nighter – Top Cees
Midnight Sequel – Montana Moss / Sir Rembrandt
King’s Wharf – Father Sky
Enjoying – Scappa Michelino
Kings Apollo – Italiano
Grand Gold – North Lodge
Hilali – Naughty By Nature
Bajan Hero – Barashi
Fine Resolve – Cemcraft
Elavssom – Lord ThomasJune 6, 2012 at 09:41 #407062I’d be interested to see which of these relatives keep up the family tradition. I’d also be interested to know whether there are particular flat-racing bloodlines that seem to produce a higher than average number of juvenile hurdle winners. I appreciate there are a number of flat sires who have produced good hurdlers but I would see an ability to produce a juvenile hurdle winner as comparable to the ability to produce early 2yos on the flat.
June 6, 2012 at 13:39 #407082I don’t think for the early season juveniles, there would be much in the way of strong statistics. Largely as there wouldn’t be a deep enough data pool and horses, typically speaking, aren’t bred for the specific purpose of juvenile hurdling. Most horses who take up hurdling at this stage of their lives generally fall into the discipline rather than aspire to it. As such, extreme precocity at this time of year would be an incident of chance rather than design.
Nonetheless, I have just collated a list of leading juvenile hurdling sires based on the top 50 4yos by RPR over the past five seasons. A few patterns are emerging so I might extend this to the top 100 RPRs;-
Alhaarth 7
Montjeu 7
Barathea 6
High Chaparral 6
Pivotal 6
Daylami 5
Galileo 5
Robin Des Champs 5
Tobougg 5
Kalanisi 4
Sadler’s Wells 4
Sinndar 4
Cape Cross 3
Dubai Destination 3
Dubawi 3
Dalakhani 3
Haafhd 3
Hernando 3
Kapgarde 3
Le Fou 3
Old Vic 3
Smadoun 3
Al Namix 2
Anabaa 2
Azamour 2
Chevalier 2
Hawk Wing 2
Indian Danehill 2
Indian Ridge 2
Johann Quatz 2
Kendor 2
Key Of Luck 2
King’s Best 2
King’s Theatre 2
Le Vie Dei Colori 2
Lomitas 2
Martaline 2
Medicean 2
Mull Of Kintyre 2
Nayef 2
Poliglote 2
Red Ransom 2
Redback 2
Rock Of Gibraltar 2
Sakhee 2
Statue Of Liberty 2
Take Risks 2
Val Royal 2
Verglas 2
Act One
Ad Valorem
Alberto Giacometti
Alzao
Antonius Pius
Assessor
Astarabad
Bach
Bachelor Duke
Balko
Beat All
Beat Hollow
Bob Back
Bulington
Captain Rio
Catcher In The Rye
Celtic Swing
Choisir
Daliapour
Danehill Dancer
Dansili
Desert Prince
Diktat
Dilshaan
Domedriver
Doyen
Dream Well
Elusive Quality
Empire Maker
Enrique
Fly To The Stars
Fragrant Mix
Gentlewave
Giant’s Causeway
Gold Away
Golden Snake
Goldneyev
Governor Brown
Graveron
Grey Risk
Groom Dancer
Halling
Highest Honor
In The Wings
Indian Haven
Intikhab
Ivan Denisovich
Keltos
Kizitca
Kutub
Largesse
Lavirco
Lavirco
Le Balafre
Lemon Drop Kid
Lend A Hand
Lesotho
Lost World
Maille Pistol
Milan
Motivator
Muhtathir
Mujahid
Munir
Network
Nicobar
Night Shift
Okawango
One Cool Cat
Oscar
Panoramic
Passing Sale
Peintre Celebre
Polish Summer
Priolo
Pursuit Of Love
Reset
Rifapour
River Bay
Robertico
Royal Academy
Sagamix
Saint Des Saints
Sassanian
Scater
Singspiel
Ski Chief
Slickly
Solon
Soviet Star
Spartacus
Starborough
Sulamani
Sunday Break
Swain
Tiger Hill
Tillerman
Touch Of The Blues
Trempolino
Turgeon
War Chant
WesternerJune 6, 2012 at 15:26 #407100OK. Here are, roughly speaking, the top sires of juvenile hurdlers. The list is based on the top 100 rated 4yos from the past 5 seasons. I haven’t filtered out the ones who’ve predominantly sired bumper horses but I don’t feel that the stats have been contaminated too much as the jump sires are easy enough to pick out, there aren’t that many of them, jump bred horses rarely contest juveniles and the horses are the same age in any case.
Furthermore, none of the top ten horses on the list feature in the top sixteen overall jumps sires so I’d say the data is reasonably solid.
I’ve posted these sires in order of how many horses featured in the 500 and have left all of the others in for the benefit of whomever wishes to use the information.
High Chaparral 13
Montjeu 12
Alhaarth 11
Galileo 11
Daylami 9
Pivotal 9
Barathea 7
Hernando 7
Rock Of Gibraltar 7
Tobougg 7
——————————–
King’s Theatre 6
Robin Des Champs 6
Sadler’s Wells 6
Captain Rio 5
Kalanisi 5
Lomitas 5
Old Vic 5
Oscar 5
Sinndar 5
Cape Cross 4
Dalakhani 4
Haafhd 4
Key Of Luck 4
Medicean 4
Milan 4
Mull Of Kintyre 4
Night Shift 4
Red Ransom 4
Sakhee 4
Acclamation 3
Act One 3
Anabaa 3
Azamour 3
Beat Hollow 3
Beneficial 3
Celtic Swing 3
Choisir 3
Danehill Dancer 3
Desert Prince 3
Diktat 3
Dr Fong 3
Dubai Destination 3
Dubawi 3
Dynaformer 3
Generous 3
Hawk Wing 3
Indian Danehill 3
Invincible Spirit 3
Kapgarde 3
Kendor 3
Le Fou 3
Lemon Drop Kid 3
Linamix 3
Nayef 3
Peintre Celebre 3
Poliglote 3
Redback 3
Smadoun 3
Take Risks 3
Tiger Hill 3
Trempolino 3
Val Royal 3
Al Namix 2
Alberto Giacometti 2
Assessor 2
Astarabad 2
Bachelor Duke 2
Black Sam Bellamy 2
Bob Back 2
Califet 2
Catcher In The Rye 2
Chevalier 2
Dansili 2
Definite Article 2
Dilshaan 2
Doyen 2
Enrique 2
Fasliyev 2
Footstepsinthesand 2
Fraam 2
Golden Snake 2
Imperial Ballet 2
In The Wings 2
Indian Ridge 2
Intikhab 2
Johann Quatz 2
King Charlemagne 2
King’s Best 2
Kutub 2
Lavirco 2
Le Vie Dei Colori 2
Lost World 2
Martaline 2
Motivator 2
Orpen 2
Selkirk 2
Soviet Star 2
Statue Of Liberty 2
Swain 2
Tillerman 2
Verglas 2
War Chant 2
Ad Valorem
Alderbrook
Alphabet Soup
Alzao
Anabaa Blue
Antonius Pius
Aptitude
Atticus
Bach
Balko
Barathea Guest
Beat All
Bering
Bernardini
Bertolini
Big Shuffle
Bulington
Cacique
Cadoudal
City Honours
Daliapour
Deploy
Desert Style
Diamond Green
Diesis
Distant Music
Dom Alco
Domedriver
Dream Well
El Prado
Elusive Quality
Empire Maker
Fantastic Light
Fath
Flemensfirth
Fly To The Stars
Fragrant Mix
Gentlewave
Giant’s Causeway
Gold Away
Gold Well
Goldneyev
Governor Brown
Graveron
Grey Risk
Groom Dancer
Halling
High Yield
Highest Honor
Honour And Glory
Include
Indian Haven
Indian Rocket
Ivan Denisovich
Josr Algarhoud
Kahyasi
Kayf Tara
Keltos
Khalkevi
Kheleyf
Kizitca
Kyllachy
Lando
Largesse
Le Balafre
Lend A Hand
Lesotho
Librettist
Lord Of England
Loup Solitaire
Lucky Story
Maille Pistol
Marathon
Marchand De Sable
Menifee
Monashee Mountain
Morespeed
Muhtarram
Muhtathir
Mujadil
Mujahid
Munir
Network
Nicobar
Observatory
Officiel
Okawango
One Cool Cat
Oratorio
Overbury
Panoramic
Paolini
Passing Sale
Pelder
Phoenix Reach
Pierre
Polish Summer
Presenting
Priolo
Pursuit Of Love
Pyrus
Rainwatch
Reset
Rifapour
River Bay
Robellino
Robertico
Robin Des Pres
Roli Abi
Royal Academy
Saffron Walden
Sagamix
Saint Des Saints
Sassanian
Scater
Shaanmer
Shamardal
Silver Patriarch
Singspiel
Ski Chief
Slickly
Solon
Spartacus
Starborough
Starcraft
Stormin Fever
Storming Home
Sulamani
Sunday Break
Tagula
Tendulkar
Titus Livius
Touch Of The Blues
Turgeon
Vettori
Viking Ruler
Westerner
Whipper
With Approval
WoodmanJune 7, 2012 at 08:22 #407174Good stuff – I’ll be paying close attention to 2yos by those sires at the autumn sales
June 7, 2012 at 16:08 #407219Thank you Tuffers and good luck with however you choose to use the information.
I’ll be heading off to Newcastle first thing tomorrow morning, so I won’t have a chance to post the relatives before the declarations come out. as such, I’ll just post them here now. Again, some relatives are much more distant than others…
Can Do Les – Vintage Crop/Any Given Day
Dilizan – Dirar/Dabiroun
Pelican Rock – Perfect Venue
July Specialists – Peadar Miguel
Pearl Catcher – Private Guy
Angel Warrior – Swimmer
Outlaw Torn – Mr Gisby
Actor – XtraRegarding the sires of those entered, Montjeu (Actor) appears on the long list 12 times, Dubai Destination (Dilizan) 3 times, Catcher In The Rye (Pearl Catcher) twice and Josr Algarhoud (July Specialists) once.
Given Dilizan’s sire and the fact his second cousin won the 2005 Fred Winter, one could be forgiven for thinking that he is ideally bred for the game.
June 7, 2012 at 17:14 #407234I know it’s the very bottom division of NH racing, but it is fascinating in it’s own way, and they try just as hard as their superiors. Thanks for those figures.
June 7, 2012 at 23:21 #407304You’re welcome Befair.
Indeed I too am strangely drawn to this particular brand although at this time of year, there doesn’t seem to be much of a demand or a programme for it. The Hexham race had to be reopened and though there’s a juvenile hurdle at Uttoxeter on the 14th and another at Market Rasen on the 22nd I’ve not spotted any others up to and including the 8th of June. I know that they used to start a couple of months later but to have such a gap between races seems a bit odd.
The French tend to have a full programme from March which begs the question, do the French start too soon or does the UK start too late?
June 10, 2012 at 14:45 #407572Here are some pictures of the horses parading as well as a picture of the victorious Dilizan entering the winner’s enclosure. On the off chance that anybody wants a larger version then feel free to pm me.
June 10, 2012 at 14:47 #407573Pearl Catcher and Dilizan
June 10, 2012 at 14:48 #407574For what it is worth, I am quite pleased that the breeding research proved to be well founded
June 13, 2012 at 13:03 #407969Here are some details on the pedigrees of the declared runners in tomorrow’s juvenile hurdle at Uttoxeter. Please note again that this is merely a guide for amusement’s sake and not necessarily a reflection of the horse’s chance in the race. Furthermore, several of the relatives listed went on to have chasing careers but I have focussed on the hurdling aspects of their lives and as always, some are more distantly related than others.
Imperial Stargazer –
Calapaez
(1st 1989 Cleeve Hurdle)
Arbeejay –Accipiter
(1st 2004 Sefton Novices’ Hurdle)
Brave Tornado
(1st 1995 Finesse 4yo Hurdle)
Mormoran –Maamur
(5th 1993 Tote Silver Trophy)
Foster’s Road –Thinking Twice
(3rd 1996 Lanzarote)
Magical Marvin –Pedro Pete
(2nd 2001 Finesse 4yo Hurdle)
Jimmy The Lollipop –Earls Quarter
(1st 2011 2m2f Galway Novices’ Hurdle)
Midnight Sequel –Montana Moss
(3rd Punchestown 4yo Championship Hurdle)
Cotes Du Rhone –Deflation
(1st 2004 Prix Rohan – listed Auteuil for horses unraced over obstacles, incidentally won this year by Un Beau Matin)
Enjoying –Scappa Michelino
(2nd 2010 Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle – Gr3 Italy)
Miss Conduct –My Angel
(2nd Schmidt Pauli Steeplechase – listed Baden-Baden)
King’s Apollo –Italiano
(1st 2005 2m3f Catterick Novices’ Hurdle)
Fine Resolve –Cemgraft
(2nd 2006 2m4 Fontwell Novices’ Hurdle)
Of the sires, King’s Theatre (King’s Apollo) appears six times on the big list (although it should be noted that several horses on that list were bumper horses), Catcher In The Rye (Cotes Du Rhone) twice and both Tillerman (Magical Marvin) and Overbury (Miss Conduct) the once.
June 13, 2012 at 15:30 #407989Sterling work. This could make up into quite a thread.
August 2, 2012 at 12:48 #408700Presumably, you have half an eye on the claimer at Kempton on Monday? There’s a Richard Hannon trained Haafhd gelding in for £6,000 called Netley Marsh. His great granddam is Irish St Leger winner Mountain Lodge and he shares a granddam with Sariska as well as Little Green who herself won a Grade 2 Juvenile Hurdle. Granted Little Green’s form isn’t mightily strong but she has kept herself in reasonable company Eric McNamara. Netley Marsh has been quite disappointing and I have no idea what he looks like but perhaps he’s worth keeping an eye on…
Anywho, here are the most notable hurdling relatives of the runners in tomorrow’s juvenile at Bangor.
Halogen – 2/1
Ambobo
1st Classic Novices Hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2005
Echoes Of Joy – 4/3Oodachee
3rd Pertemps Final (137), Cheltenham 2006
Rano Pano – 3/3Quartino
1st Grade C Handicap Hurdle (114), Listowel 2008
Enjoying – 3/2Scappa Michelino
2nd Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle (G3), Merano 2010
Rapid Heat Lad – 1/1Reaching Out
2nd Handicap Hurdle (101), Gowran Park 2008
Tantalized – 5/3Aqua Breezer
1st Maiden Hurdle, Thurles 2005
Snowed In – 3/2So Precious
1st Juvenile Hurdle, Fakenham 2000
Fine Resolve – 2/1Cemgraft
2nd Mares Novices Hurdle, Fontwell 2006
August 2, 2012 at 19:33 #408752Presumably, you have half an eye on the claimer at Kempton on Monday? There’s a Richard Hannon trained Haafhd gelding in for £6,000 called Netley Marsh. His great granddam is Irish St Leger winner Mountain Lodge and he shares a granddam with Sariska as well as Little Green who herself won a Grade 2 Juvenile Hurdle. Granted Little Green’s form isn’t mightily strong but she has kept herself in reasonable company Eric McNamara. Netley Marsh has been quite disappointing and I have no idea what he looks like but perhaps he’s worth keeping an eye on…
The trouble with claiming one from the Hannon yard is that if he doesn’t take to hurdles then your options are pretty limited as there probably isn’t much scope to improve him on the flat.
We put in a claim for Ziefhd on Monday but missed out.
The search continues…
August 3, 2012 at 15:11 #408814Anywho, here are the most notable hurdling relatives of the runners in tomorrow’s juvenile at Bangor.
Halogen – 2/1
Ambobo
1st Classic Novices Hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2005
Echoes Of Joy – 4/3Oodachee
3rd Pertemps Final (137), Cheltenham 2006
Rano Pano – 3/3Quartino
1st Grade C Handicap Hurdle (114), Listowel 2008
Enjoying – 3/2Scappa Michelino
2nd Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle (G3), Merano 2010
Rapid Heat Lad – 1/1Reaching Out
2nd Handicap Hurdle (101), Gowran Park 2008
Tantalized – 5/3Aqua Breezer
1st Maiden Hurdle, Thurles 2005
Snowed In – 3/2So Precious
1st Juvenile Hurdle, Fakenham 2000
Fine Resolve – 2/1Cemgraft
2nd Mares Novices Hurdle, Fontwell 2006
Halogen hacked up there.
August 3, 2012 at 20:27 #408847The trouble with claiming one from the Hannon yard is that if he doesn’t take to hurdles then your options are pretty limited as there probably isn’t much scope to improve him on the flat.
That makes sense although it would be infuriating to watch him win the Triumph hard held before being installed as favourite for the 2014 Champion Hurdle

Halogen hacked up there.
He utterly dismissed them and I forgot to add that his sire, Halling, is the only one that shows up on the list.
I was a bit disappointed with Rapid Heat Lad’s performance as he had three subsequent hurdle winners in behind (Ctappers, Foster’s Road, Dalmo) when easily winning his Lingfield maiden. That said, George Baker, who rode him that day, said that it was a very poor race so that’s probably a reflection of the quality of hurdlers seen thus far.
Still, Halogen is by far and away the best hurdler who’s been out at this stage. He firmly holds every other horse on form apart from Brian Ellison’s Dilizan who hacked up in the Hexham mud. He hasn’t been seen since and has disappeared form the horses in training list on his site which doesn’t usually bode well. One would very much doubt that Halogen would be McCain’s idea of his Triumph horse but it wouldn’t be surprising to see him hold his own in reasonable handicap company in the future.
Tomorrow’s race is the first class 3 juvenile this season. The Newton Abbot contest is intriguing as eight of the ten have already jumped a hurdle in public (Friendsinlowplaces barely qualifies), Ctappers gets a chance to confirm Market Rasen form with Quiet Route and Hilali reverts to hurdling after winning a Newbury handicap by six lengths and getting purchased by JP McManus. The race also sees the first Alan King runner of the season in the shape of Shannon Spree whose granddam is a half sister to the dam of Overturn and although Royal Applause is better known for his sprinters, Shannon Spree herself can staz at least 10 furlongs. Here are the notable relatives;-
Shannon Spree 3/2
Overturn
2nd Champion Hurdle (G1), Cheltenham 2012
Dalmo 1/1Pigeon Island
1st Dovecote Novice’s Hurdle (G2), Kempton 2008
King’s Wharf 3/2Father Sky
1st Classic Novice’s Hurdle (G2), Uttoxeter 1995
Ctappers 1/1Pedro Pete
2nd Finesse 4yo hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2001
Whipcrackaway 1/1Louisville Lip
3rd Novice’s Handicap Hurdle (116), Fairyhouse 2011
Bajan Hero 1/1Right Step
1st Novice Hurdle, Kempton 2012
River Valley 2/1Richie Bob
3rd Novice Hurdle, Carlisle 2011
Hilali 3/2Naughty By Nature
1st Handicap Hurdle (96), Bangor 2009
Friendsinlowplaces 2/1Realisation
3rd Handicap Hurdle (93), Ludlow 2012
Quiet Route 2/1Prominent Feature
7th conditions hurdle, Leopardstown 2004
Dalmo – Dalakhani (4)
Bajan Hero – Haafhd (4)
Hilali – Sakhee (4)
Whipcrackaway – Whipper (1) - AuthorPosts
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.