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Juvenile Hurdlers 2012/13

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  • #21940
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    Today marks the first appearance of this season’s crop of juvenile hurdlers. Granted it is typically only moderate sorts seen out at this time of year (although Katchit, Countrywide Flame and Barizan all appeared before September to name a select few) but I see no more appropriate time to start a thread on the subject.

    Who’s going Juvenile hurdling? Who would you like to see Juvenile hurdling and what is made of those actually hurdling this season?

    So far, I’ve only spotted one 3yo that has joined a top yard, namely <b>For Two</b> who has won his only start at Auteuil, has joined Paul Nicholls and will race in the Wylie colours. Many more suggestions would be most appreciated!

    For my own amusement, I’ve been tracking down hurdling relations of this season’s juveniles and will share the findings on a race by race basis because why not. The horses will be listed in the order of their relative’s prestige although please note that some of these relatives are much more distant that others;-

    Choisirez – Binocular
    Can Do Les – Any Given Day / Vintage Crop
    Dougie Boy – Windbound Lass
    All Nighter – Top Cees
    Midnight Sequel – Montana Moss / Sir Rembrandt
    King’s Wharf – Father Sky
    Enjoying – Scappa Michelino
    Kings Apollo – Italiano
    Grand Gold – North Lodge
    Hilali – Naughty By Nature
    Bajan Hero – Barashi
    Fine Resolve – Cemcraft
    Elavssom – Lord Thomas

    #407062
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    I’d be interested to see which of these relatives keep up the family tradition. I’d also be interested to know whether there are particular flat-racing bloodlines that seem to produce a higher than average number of juvenile hurdle winners. I appreciate there are a number of flat sires who have produced good hurdlers but I would see an ability to produce a juvenile hurdle winner as comparable to the ability to produce early 2yos on the flat.

    #407082
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    I don’t think for the early season juveniles, there would be much in the way of strong statistics. Largely as there wouldn’t be a deep enough data pool and horses, typically speaking, aren’t bred for the specific purpose of juvenile hurdling. Most horses who take up hurdling at this stage of their lives generally fall into the discipline rather than aspire to it. As such, extreme precocity at this time of year would be an incident of chance rather than design.

    Nonetheless, I have just collated a list of leading juvenile hurdling sires based on the top 50 4yos by RPR over the past five seasons. A few patterns are emerging so I might extend this to the top 100 RPRs;-

    Alhaarth 7
    Montjeu 7
    Barathea 6
    High Chaparral 6
    Pivotal 6
    Daylami 5
    Galileo 5
    Robin Des Champs 5
    Tobougg 5
    Kalanisi 4
    Sadler’s Wells 4
    Sinndar 4
    Cape Cross 3
    Dubai Destination 3
    Dubawi 3
    Dalakhani 3
    Haafhd 3
    Hernando 3
    Kapgarde 3
    Le Fou 3
    Old Vic 3
    Smadoun 3
    Al Namix 2
    Anabaa 2
    Azamour 2
    Chevalier 2
    Hawk Wing 2
    Indian Danehill 2
    Indian Ridge 2
    Johann Quatz 2
    Kendor 2
    Key Of Luck 2
    King’s Best 2
    King’s Theatre 2
    Le Vie Dei Colori 2
    Lomitas 2
    Martaline 2
    Medicean 2
    Mull Of Kintyre 2
    Nayef 2
    Poliglote 2
    Red Ransom 2
    Redback 2
    Rock Of Gibraltar 2
    Sakhee 2
    Statue Of Liberty 2
    Take Risks 2
    Val Royal 2
    Verglas 2
    Act One
    Ad Valorem
    Alberto Giacometti
    Alzao
    Antonius Pius
    Assessor
    Astarabad
    Bach
    Bachelor Duke
    Balko
    Beat All
    Beat Hollow
    Bob Back
    Bulington
    Captain Rio
    Catcher In The Rye
    Celtic Swing
    Choisir
    Daliapour
    Danehill Dancer
    Dansili
    Desert Prince
    Diktat
    Dilshaan
    Domedriver
    Doyen
    Dream Well
    Elusive Quality
    Empire Maker
    Enrique
    Fly To The Stars
    Fragrant Mix
    Gentlewave
    Giant’s Causeway
    Gold Away
    Golden Snake
    Goldneyev
    Governor Brown
    Graveron
    Grey Risk
    Groom Dancer
    Halling
    Highest Honor
    In The Wings
    Indian Haven
    Intikhab
    Ivan Denisovich
    Keltos
    Kizitca
    Kutub
    Largesse
    Lavirco
    Lavirco
    Le Balafre
    Lemon Drop Kid
    Lend A Hand
    Lesotho
    Lost World
    Maille Pistol
    Milan
    Motivator
    Muhtathir
    Mujahid
    Munir
    Network
    Nicobar
    Night Shift
    Okawango
    One Cool Cat
    Oscar
    Panoramic
    Passing Sale
    Peintre Celebre
    Polish Summer
    Priolo
    Pursuit Of Love
    Reset
    Rifapour
    River Bay
    Robertico
    Royal Academy
    Sagamix
    Saint Des Saints
    Sassanian
    Scater
    Singspiel
    Ski Chief
    Slickly
    Solon
    Soviet Star
    Spartacus
    Starborough
    Sulamani
    Sunday Break
    Swain
    Tiger Hill
    Tillerman
    Touch Of The Blues
    Trempolino
    Turgeon
    War Chant
    Westerner

    #407100
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    OK. Here are, roughly speaking, the top sires of juvenile hurdlers. The list is based on the top 100 rated 4yos from the past 5 seasons. I haven’t filtered out the ones who’ve predominantly sired bumper horses but I don’t feel that the stats have been contaminated too much as the jump sires are easy enough to pick out, there aren’t that many of them, jump bred horses rarely contest juveniles and the horses are the same age in any case.

    Furthermore, none of the top ten horses on the list feature in the top sixteen overall jumps sires so I’d say the data is reasonably solid.

    I’ve posted these sires in order of how many horses featured in the 500 and have left all of the others in for the benefit of whomever wishes to use the information.

    High Chaparral 13
    Montjeu 12
    Alhaarth 11
    Galileo 11
    Daylami 9
    Pivotal 9
    Barathea 7
    Hernando 7
    Rock Of Gibraltar 7
    Tobougg 7
    ——————————–
    King’s Theatre 6
    Robin Des Champs 6
    Sadler’s Wells 6
    Captain Rio 5
    Kalanisi 5
    Lomitas 5
    Old Vic 5
    Oscar 5
    Sinndar 5
    Cape Cross 4
    Dalakhani 4
    Haafhd 4
    Key Of Luck 4
    Medicean 4
    Milan 4
    Mull Of Kintyre 4
    Night Shift 4
    Red Ransom 4
    Sakhee 4
    Acclamation 3
    Act One 3
    Anabaa 3
    Azamour 3
    Beat Hollow 3
    Beneficial 3
    Celtic Swing 3
    Choisir 3
    Danehill Dancer 3
    Desert Prince 3
    Diktat 3
    Dr Fong 3
    Dubai Destination 3
    Dubawi 3
    Dynaformer 3
    Generous 3
    Hawk Wing 3
    Indian Danehill 3
    Invincible Spirit 3
    Kapgarde 3
    Kendor 3
    Le Fou 3
    Lemon Drop Kid 3
    Linamix 3
    Nayef 3
    Peintre Celebre 3
    Poliglote 3
    Redback 3
    Smadoun 3
    Take Risks 3
    Tiger Hill 3
    Trempolino 3
    Val Royal 3
    Al Namix 2
    Alberto Giacometti 2
    Assessor 2
    Astarabad 2
    Bachelor Duke 2
    Black Sam Bellamy 2
    Bob Back 2
    Califet 2
    Catcher In The Rye 2
    Chevalier 2
    Dansili 2
    Definite Article 2
    Dilshaan 2
    Doyen 2
    Enrique 2
    Fasliyev 2
    Footstepsinthesand 2
    Fraam 2
    Golden Snake 2
    Imperial Ballet 2
    In The Wings 2
    Indian Ridge 2
    Intikhab 2
    Johann Quatz 2
    King Charlemagne 2
    King’s Best 2
    Kutub 2
    Lavirco 2
    Le Vie Dei Colori 2
    Lost World 2
    Martaline 2
    Motivator 2
    Orpen 2
    Selkirk 2
    Soviet Star 2
    Statue Of Liberty 2
    Swain 2
    Tillerman 2
    Verglas 2
    War Chant 2
    Ad Valorem
    Alderbrook
    Alphabet Soup
    Alzao
    Anabaa Blue
    Antonius Pius
    Aptitude
    Atticus
    Bach
    Balko
    Barathea Guest
    Beat All
    Bering
    Bernardini
    Bertolini
    Big Shuffle
    Bulington
    Cacique
    Cadoudal
    City Honours
    Daliapour
    Deploy
    Desert Style
    Diamond Green
    Diesis
    Distant Music
    Dom Alco
    Domedriver
    Dream Well
    El Prado
    Elusive Quality
    Empire Maker
    Fantastic Light
    Fath
    Flemensfirth
    Fly To The Stars
    Fragrant Mix
    Gentlewave
    Giant’s Causeway
    Gold Away
    Gold Well
    Goldneyev
    Governor Brown
    Graveron
    Grey Risk
    Groom Dancer
    Halling
    High Yield
    Highest Honor
    Honour And Glory
    Include
    Indian Haven
    Indian Rocket
    Ivan Denisovich
    Josr Algarhoud
    Kahyasi
    Kayf Tara
    Keltos
    Khalkevi
    Kheleyf
    Kizitca
    Kyllachy
    Lando
    Largesse
    Le Balafre
    Lend A Hand
    Lesotho
    Librettist
    Lord Of England
    Loup Solitaire
    Lucky Story
    Maille Pistol
    Marathon
    Marchand De Sable
    Menifee
    Monashee Mountain
    Morespeed
    Muhtarram
    Muhtathir
    Mujadil
    Mujahid
    Munir
    Network
    Nicobar
    Observatory
    Officiel
    Okawango
    One Cool Cat
    Oratorio
    Overbury
    Panoramic
    Paolini
    Passing Sale
    Pelder
    Phoenix Reach
    Pierre
    Polish Summer
    Presenting
    Priolo
    Pursuit Of Love
    Pyrus
    Rainwatch
    Reset
    Rifapour
    River Bay
    Robellino
    Robertico
    Robin Des Pres
    Roli Abi
    Royal Academy
    Saffron Walden
    Sagamix
    Saint Des Saints
    Sassanian
    Scater
    Shaanmer
    Shamardal
    Silver Patriarch
    Singspiel
    Ski Chief
    Slickly
    Solon
    Spartacus
    Starborough
    Starcraft
    Stormin Fever
    Storming Home
    Sulamani
    Sunday Break
    Tagula
    Tendulkar
    Titus Livius
    Touch Of The Blues
    Turgeon
    Vettori
    Viking Ruler
    Westerner
    Whipper
    With Approval
    Woodman

    #407174
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    Good stuff – I’ll be paying close attention to 2yos by those sires at the autumn sales

    #407219
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    Thank you Tuffers and good luck with however you choose to use the information.

    I’ll be heading off to Newcastle first thing tomorrow morning, so I won’t have a chance to post the relatives before the declarations come out. as such, I’ll just post them here now. Again, some relatives are much more distant than others…

    Can Do Les – Vintage Crop/Any Given Day
    Dilizan – Dirar/Dabiroun
    Pelican Rock – Perfect Venue
    July Specialists – Peadar Miguel
    Pearl Catcher – Private Guy
    Angel Warrior – Swimmer
    Outlaw Torn – Mr Gisby
    Actor – Xtra

    Regarding the sires of those entered, Montjeu (Actor) appears on the long list 12 times, Dubai Destination (Dilizan) 3 times, Catcher In The Rye (Pearl Catcher) twice and Josr Algarhoud (July Specialists) once.

    Given Dilizan’s sire and the fact his second cousin won the 2005 Fred Winter, one could be forgiven for thinking that he is ideally bred for the game.

    #407234
    Avatar photobefair
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    I know it’s the very bottom division of NH racing, but it is fascinating in it’s own way, and they try just as hard as their superiors. Thanks for those figures.

    #407304
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    You’re welcome Befair.

    Indeed I too am strangely drawn to this particular brand although at this time of year, there doesn’t seem to be much of a demand or a programme for it. The Hexham race had to be reopened and though there’s a juvenile hurdle at Uttoxeter on the 14th and another at Market Rasen on the 22nd I’ve not spotted any others up to and including the 8th of June. I know that they used to start a couple of months later but to have such a gap between races seems a bit odd.

    The French tend to have a full programme from March which begs the question, do the French start too soon or does the UK start too late?

    #407572
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    Here are some pictures of the horses parading as well as a picture of the victorious Dilizan entering the winner’s enclosure. On the off chance that anybody wants a larger version then feel free to pm me.

    #407573
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    Pearl Catcher and Dilizan

    #407574
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    For what it is worth, I am quite pleased that the breeding research proved to be well founded :D

    #407969
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    Here are some details on the pedigrees of the declared runners in tomorrow’s juvenile hurdle at Uttoxeter. Please note again that this is merely a guide for amusement’s sake and not necessarily a reflection of the horse’s chance in the race. Furthermore, several of the relatives listed went on to have chasing careers but I have focussed on the hurdling aspects of their lives and as always, some are more distantly related than others.

    Imperial Stargazer –

    Calapaez

    (1st 1989 Cleeve Hurdle)
    Arbeejay –

    Accipiter

    (1st 2004 Sefton Novices’ Hurdle)

    Brave Tornado

    (1st 1995 Finesse 4yo Hurdle)
    Mormoran –

    Maamur

    (5th 1993 Tote Silver Trophy)
    Foster’s Road –

    Thinking Twice

    (3rd 1996 Lanzarote)
    Magical Marvin –

    Pedro Pete

    (2nd 2001 Finesse 4yo Hurdle)
    Jimmy The Lollipop –

    Earls Quarter

    (1st 2011 2m2f Galway Novices’ Hurdle)
    Midnight Sequel –

    Montana Moss

    (3rd Punchestown 4yo Championship Hurdle)
    Cotes Du Rhone –

    Deflation

    (1st 2004 Prix Rohan – listed Auteuil for horses unraced over obstacles, incidentally won this year by Un Beau Matin)
    Enjoying –

    Scappa Michelino

    (2nd 2010 Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle – Gr3 Italy)
    Miss Conduct –

    My Angel

    (2nd Schmidt Pauli Steeplechase – listed Baden-Baden)
    King’s Apollo –

    Italiano

    (1st 2005 2m3f Catterick Novices’ Hurdle)
    Fine Resolve –

    Cemgraft

    (2nd 2006 2m4 Fontwell Novices’ Hurdle)

    Of the sires, King’s Theatre (King’s Apollo) appears six times on the big list (although it should be noted that several horses on that list were bumper horses), Catcher In The Rye (Cotes Du Rhone) twice and both Tillerman (Magical Marvin) and Overbury (Miss Conduct) the once.

    #407989
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    Sterling work. This could make up into quite a thread.

    #408700
    Avatar photoBachelors Hall
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    Presumably, you have half an eye on the claimer at Kempton on Monday? There’s a Richard Hannon trained Haafhd gelding in for £6,000 called Netley Marsh. His great granddam is Irish St Leger winner Mountain Lodge and he shares a granddam with Sariska as well as Little Green who herself won a Grade 2 Juvenile Hurdle. Granted Little Green’s form isn’t mightily strong but she has kept herself in reasonable company Eric McNamara. Netley Marsh has been quite disappointing and I have no idea what he looks like but perhaps he’s worth keeping an eye on…

    Anywho, here are the most notable hurdling relatives of the runners in tomorrow’s juvenile at Bangor.

    Halogen – 2/1

    Ambobo

    1st Classic Novices Hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2005
    Echoes Of Joy – 4/3

    Oodachee

    3rd Pertemps Final (137), Cheltenham 2006
    Rano Pano – 3/3

    Quartino

    1st Grade C Handicap Hurdle (114), Listowel 2008
    Enjoying – 3/2

    Scappa Michelino

    2nd Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle (G3), Merano 2010
    Rapid Heat Lad – 1/1

    Reaching Out

    2nd Handicap Hurdle (101), Gowran Park 2008
    Tantalized – 5/3

    Aqua Breezer

    1st Maiden Hurdle, Thurles 2005
    Snowed In – 3/2

    So Precious

    1st Juvenile Hurdle, Fakenham 2000
    Fine Resolve – 2/1

    Cemgraft

    2nd Mares Novices Hurdle, Fontwell 2006

    #408752
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    Presumably, you have half an eye on the claimer at Kempton on Monday? There’s a Richard Hannon trained Haafhd gelding in for £6,000 called Netley Marsh. His great granddam is Irish St Leger winner Mountain Lodge and he shares a granddam with Sariska as well as Little Green who herself won a Grade 2 Juvenile Hurdle. Granted Little Green’s form isn’t mightily strong but she has kept herself in reasonable company Eric McNamara. Netley Marsh has been quite disappointing and I have no idea what he looks like but perhaps he’s worth keeping an eye on…

    The trouble with claiming one from the Hannon yard is that if he doesn’t take to hurdles then your options are pretty limited as there probably isn’t much scope to improve him on the flat.

    We put in a claim for Ziefhd on Monday but missed out.

    The search continues…

    #408814
    Avatar photoTuffers
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    Anywho, here are the most notable hurdling relatives of the runners in tomorrow’s juvenile at Bangor.

    Halogen – 2/1

    Ambobo

    1st Classic Novices Hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2005
    Echoes Of Joy – 4/3

    Oodachee

    3rd Pertemps Final (137), Cheltenham 2006
    Rano Pano – 3/3

    Quartino

    1st Grade C Handicap Hurdle (114), Listowel 2008
    Enjoying – 3/2

    Scappa Michelino

    2nd Premio Ettore Tagliabue Hurdle (G3), Merano 2010
    Rapid Heat Lad – 1/1

    Reaching Out

    2nd Handicap Hurdle (101), Gowran Park 2008
    Tantalized – 5/3

    Aqua Breezer

    1st Maiden Hurdle, Thurles 2005
    Snowed In – 3/2

    So Precious

    1st Juvenile Hurdle, Fakenham 2000
    Fine Resolve – 2/1

    Cemgraft

    2nd Mares Novices Hurdle, Fontwell 2006

    Halogen hacked up there.

    #408847
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    The trouble with claiming one from the Hannon yard is that if he doesn’t take to hurdles then your options are pretty limited as there probably isn’t much scope to improve him on the flat.

    That makes sense although it would be infuriating to watch him win the Triumph hard held before being installed as favourite for the 2014 Champion Hurdle :shock:

    Halogen hacked up there.

    He utterly dismissed them and I forgot to add that his sire, Halling, is the only one that shows up on the list.

    I was a bit disappointed with Rapid Heat Lad’s performance as he had three subsequent hurdle winners in behind (Ctappers, Foster’s Road, Dalmo) when easily winning his Lingfield maiden. That said, George Baker, who rode him that day, said that it was a very poor race so that’s probably a reflection of the quality of hurdlers seen thus far.

    Still, Halogen is by far and away the best hurdler who’s been out at this stage. He firmly holds every other horse on form apart from Brian Ellison’s Dilizan who hacked up in the Hexham mud. He hasn’t been seen since and has disappeared form the horses in training list on his site which doesn’t usually bode well. One would very much doubt that Halogen would be McCain’s idea of his Triumph horse but it wouldn’t be surprising to see him hold his own in reasonable handicap company in the future.

    Tomorrow’s race is the first class 3 juvenile this season. The Newton Abbot contest is intriguing as eight of the ten have already jumped a hurdle in public (Friendsinlowplaces barely qualifies), Ctappers gets a chance to confirm Market Rasen form with Quiet Route and Hilali reverts to hurdling after winning a Newbury handicap by six lengths and getting purchased by JP McManus. The race also sees the first Alan King runner of the season in the shape of Shannon Spree whose granddam is a half sister to the dam of Overturn and although Royal Applause is better known for his sprinters, Shannon Spree herself can staz at least 10 furlongs. Here are the notable relatives;-

    Shannon Spree 3/2

    Overturn

    2nd Champion Hurdle (G1), Cheltenham 2012
    Dalmo 1/1

    Pigeon Island

    1st Dovecote Novice’s Hurdle (G2), Kempton 2008
    King’s Wharf 3/2

    Father Sky

    1st Classic Novice’s Hurdle (G2), Uttoxeter 1995
    Ctappers 1/1

    Pedro Pete

    2nd Finesse 4yo hurdle (G2), Cheltenham 2001
    Whipcrackaway 1/1

    Louisville Lip

    3rd Novice’s Handicap Hurdle (116), Fairyhouse 2011
    Bajan Hero 1/1

    Right Step

    1st Novice Hurdle, Kempton 2012
    River Valley 2/1

    Richie Bob

    3rd Novice Hurdle, Carlisle 2011
    Hilali 3/2

    Naughty By Nature

    1st Handicap Hurdle (96), Bangor 2009
    Friendsinlowplaces 2/1

    Realisation

    3rd Handicap Hurdle (93), Ludlow 2012
    Quiet Route 2/1

    Prominent Feature

    7th conditions hurdle, Leopardstown 2004

    Dalmo – Dalakhani (4)
    Bajan Hero – Haafhd (4)
    Hilali – Sakhee (4)
    Whipcrackaway – Whipper (1)

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