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I’ve always taken the view that you dont buy a dog and bark yourself.
If you think you can do better than the guy you are paying £18-20k per annum to (including racing expenses) then, if you’ve got a big back garden, have a go yourself.
If you havent, then find another trainer who you do trust to make the decisions.
The problem with most owners though (certainly with me) is that as you become more experienced and knowledgeable the temptation to dabble becomes overpowering – almost always to everyones detriment.
The best example of this is something that happened to me quite recently.
Besides the Network Racing horses, I’m involved in a useful dual purpose performer.
Coming into the New Year I suppose you would say he was slightly above average on the flat (rated 67) and pretty smart over hurdles (an unexposed 125)
The trainer was absolutely adament (despite very hostile opposition from everyone) that we should persevere with him on flat.
The perceived wisdom of course from everyone, including myself, was that we should just be concentrating on the jumping game with him.
As a result, he had an AW campaign in Jan/Feb when everyone (apart from the trainer) thought we should be concentrating on decent handicap hurdles with a view to either Cheltenham or Aintree.
The decision of the trainer really did cause some grief and (as Grey Desire will testify) i moaned non stop for about a month.
Anyway, the horse in question duly racked up a quickfire hat-trick on the flat, winning those races by a combined distance of 20 lengths, being heavily eased each time. His last two victories were so comfortable they bordered on the farcial.
He’s now rated 89 on the flat.
His trainer, when not looking smug, tells us he’s still well in which means we’re looking at staying races like the Chester Cup, Northumberland Plate, C’Witch and maybe even the Ebor as targets this season.
There is definitely a lesson in there.
Even if i violently disagree with his decision, in the future I will always let the man at the sharp end call the shots.
A massive portion, once a season, of humble pie is more than enough for me.
Really interesting comments, and I’m sure for anyone wanting to get involved in ownership, there are some really good pointers here.
On a personal view, I have a 1/10th share in a horse trained in the UK by Alex Hales, and I’m part of a bigger syndicate with Christian von der Recke in Germany. With the horse I have with Alex, I’m more than happy to take a back seat – I’ve visited the stables a few times, and to be honest, I would recommend Alex to anyone interested in getting into ownership in the UK. The treatment I’ve had from him has been nothing short of first class, but I’m happy to have no say at all as to where the horse runs – I consider myself ‘the tenth member’ of the syndicate, so I just await news whenever and wherever.
With Christian however, things are a bit different. I’ve been encouraged by both trainer and syndicate to get more involved, and I’m sure most of you are aware of my involvement with Christians horses in the UK, including getting rather over-animated when Fiepes Shuffle (Flipper) won the Desert Orchid Chase at Kempton in December. Apart from my owners representative role with Christian, I also contribute articles to the owners syndicate newsletter, with my ‘Bericht aus England’ (Report from England), and with both syndicate and trainer, I let them know how their old horses that are now being trained in the UK do. I am also allowed to have a say as to where our horses run next time, and what kind of track they will run on.
So there you go. Two ways of ownership. One of which I’m happy to take a back seat, and one which has encouraged me to get really involved in things a bit more. However, I am really happy with the set up of both, and to answer the original question at the start of the thread, I would say that there are different set ups that suit different trainers, simple as that.
Darren – AngloGerman
________________________________________‘The Hungarian’s going hell for leather’ – Jim McGrath
If I had a horse rated 67 that I felt could be successful off 89, I’d hope I could place it to win a bit more than £8,050 in the process of moving from one mark to the other.
I guess it depends whether you have the number of wins or the total of prize money won as the priority.
I’ve always taken the view that you dont buy a dog and bark yourself.
If you think you can do better than the guy you are paying £18-20k per annum to (including racing expenses) then, if you’ve got a big back garden, have a go yourself.
If you havent, then find another trainer who you do trust to make the decisions.
A certain contradiction in your post apk, if you think all the above why did you even question your trainer nevermind give him grief?
One example hardly gives a template for every other owner does it in any case?
Cannot comment on your individual case as don’t know horse or trainer but despite poor prize money being prevalent 8 grand does seem a paltry return for such a hefty rise in the handicap.Thanks for the feedback here guys. Seems like 99% would say go with what the trainer says. If I ever get into ownership I will take on board some of the excellent comments. Whether I learn to keep my mouth shut would be another thing, lol!
On some of the issues people have hightlighted around which track you run at, I would always be looking to win decent races at "gaffe" tracks. And prize money (even for being placed) would be at the top of my priorities. As apracing said, why try and win a 16 runner £3k handicap when you can run in a 4 runner £10k handicap and pick up decent prize money without winning.
why try and win a 16 runner £3k handicap when you can run in a 4 runner £10k handicap and pick up decent prize money without winning.
Because ‘the money is down’
And in that respect I agree that the lower profile the course, the better (especially if there is a high profile card somewhere else on the same day – it’s an old trick but it’s amazing how often it works).
Does that mean Feet of Fury won’t be going back to Doncaster for her handicap debut?
Does that mean Feet of Fury won’t be going back to Doncaster for her handicap debut?
Might not be a bad idea to send her back to Doncaster. The stewards obviously have no problem with horses repeatedly steered into cover at the track, granted she wont have a bend to go 10 wide round though.
Jeez, you guys are a tough crowd
DJ – nice response. One i’d expect from you. Amusing in a really sad sort of way. I suspect that the only thing that would give you more pleasure than him not being entered would have been to see him run and perhaps break down. As i’ve said before my friend, snide.
AP – You might want a greater monetary return and thats fair comment, i can see where you are coming from.
Most owners i know though will tell you that montary reward is secondary.
Any owner who is overly concerned with money needs to find a new hobby sharpish. Given the choice between three wins and £8k or one win and double the prize, i’d take the three wins. You pay for love of the sport and the thrill of winning.
I think the levels of the prize money are more of an issue than where the horse was placed anyway. On top of that, it’s ok having a well handicapped horse but you’ve still got to get him into races. A 67 rated horse is always struggling to get into anthing much better than a 0-75 or 0-80. Anyway, £8k in the space of a few weeks keeps the wolves from the door!
Yeats – yeah of course it was a contradiction in terms. I was simply giving you my opinion which is that it’s best to leave the decisions to the professionals, but the inclination to get your twopence halfpenny in is very tempting.
Does that mean Feet of Fury won’t be going back to Doncaster for her handicap debut?
She’s been allocated a mark of 68 so we wanted a 3yo fillies only 0-70 handicap over 7f for her. That left us with a grand total of one race to go for so that’s the one she will be running in.
Might not be a bad idea to send her back to Doncaster. The stewards obviously have no problem with horses repeatedly steered into cover at the track, granted she wont have a bend to go 10 wide round though.
On her debut at Newbury she was isolated on the outside of the field. She was drawn wide on her second run at Wolverhampton and Willaim Buick didn’t give the finest performance of his life (he also dropped his whip coming into the straight). By the time of her third run we were determined to educate her and wanted to make sure she had some experience of running in amongst horses. John Egan reported after the race that she was very unresponsive to the bit which was why some of her movements when trying to get a run looked a bit awkward.
Fair enough Tuffers and good luck with her, she’ll definitely find a race or two when her education is complete
Thanks guys, you’re both very kind
Hopefully, ‘Dippy’ will pass her exam with flying colours next week
Later this week, when I win the £65million Euro Lottery rollover I’ll buy half a dozen horses and use six different trainers. Then I’ll do a Peter Grayson and get them all entered in the same race. We’ll use five good jockeys who’ll be riding the least fit horses. With a novicey girl apprentice on the fittest we’ll hope her inexperience helps her finish last. In a month’s time we’ll pull the same stroke but we’ll get a ‘job’ jock on board and at odds of 33/1 we’ll pull off the coup of the century. Then we repeat the exercise every time we bring each horse to full fitness.
Gosh this ownership business is a piece of cake. It’s like having my own money machine. In fact I might even go into training them myself. Sounds a doddle to me. Put them in a field, give them a couple of canters a day and Bob’s your uncle. Easy peasy. Money for old rope. In fact if anyone on here wants to send me their horse, start planning for Epsom.(Sorry, all tongue in cheek)
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