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Someone who was watching near where Celebre D’Allen collapsed said to me it seemed to take a long time to get water to him so maybe a number of water stations around the course is something that could be looked at. At least that would be proactive without affecting the race itself.
Agree with a lot of what’s been said here but for the sake of the sport we love, Jockey’s need to be educated and have some common sense where the Grand National is concerned. I’ll watch the race again to conform the in-running comments are correct but just these two from irishracing.com
Stumptown – dropped to rear 21st, tailed off 24th, pulled up after 3 out
Idas Boy – struggling when blundered 22nd (Beechers), tailed off 4 out, pulled up before 2 out
What are these jockeys thinking? Keith Donoghue has ridden a number of festival winners but you’re tailed off and decide to continue and jump a further three fences before finally making the decision to pull up.
The other area to look at (and it’s been touched upon), is the likes of Royalle Pagaille for example, running in the race on inappropriate ground. I think horses should be able to run on all forms of going and shouldn’t be wrapped up in cotton wool by their trainers but there were twenty non-runners on the day but none in the National. So all 34 runners would have loved and been suited by the ground then trainers? I hate it when the old phrase is rolled out that the horses welfare is paramount and the best is done for them, is it? I totally agree with the sentiment but it looks like a case of “well it’s the National, we’ve got to give it go”.Perhaps naively, I particularly like seeing older horses sustaining long careers as I think it helps show that the horses cannot mind being raced and have not been soured by their experience.
Sadly this didn’t work out well with Celebre D’Allen on Saturday, but I am not sure that his age was a key factor. Being younger has not helped many other horses avoid a similar fate while racing.
I think a change should only be made if there is a body of evidence to support it, and that further change for other reasons is a slippery slope best avoided.
Typically CAS i was composing my thoughts whilst you had already posted, please do not think it was a case of plagiarism!
I hadn’t realized until after he was 13years old
With all the changes they seem to be going much faster at some points. Horses not only Broadway Boy but a few others landing steeply over valentine’s that is prob as bi as bechers brook
Even the winner wobbled after the line jockey didn’t dismount immediately that could of been bad. Luckily they got him and others to the cooling stationVf x
I think this discussion shouldn’t be only about Celebre D’Allen, but also include other horses that were never able to stand a chance in this race. Royale Pagaille and Hitman to name just two already mentioned horses, but also Stay Away Fay (a horse apparently no one wanted to ride) with PU PU PU and 11th/24 as his most recent form and the other Nicholls dart Bravemansgame.
The National is not a dart competition and seriously I’m happier than ever to see such Mullins dominance in a race that has to be taken seriously. You don’t enter and run horses in it just for fun, it’s proper competition and part of the ongoing battle in a Trainers’ Championship.
Connections have to be far more selective when mapping out this race.
To make it worse Patrick Mullins has received a ban for whip use.
The more I know the less I understand.
It’s highly likely there will be small changes regarding who can run in the next few years .
The shame is that we could just as easily be commenting on how well Celebre d’Allen ran as a 13 year old this week.
I’m not convinced it was a case of an old horse getting tired as he was still tanking along 3 out but that something physical has happened though you don’t exactly have to be Sherlock to have that view.
I’m personally not a fan of 7 year olds running either or horses with less than 10 chases under their belts ..in years gone by most runners had started 6 times that season ,some have only had 6 on their lives.
It’s usually ,with a few exceptions,battle hardened chasers who are used to running in big fields in top handicaps that do best not horses who have got a high rating by mopping up 4/5 runner novice chases then staggering round in a 3 runner 3m chase to qualify.
Not sure what the answer is but I’m sure their will be yet more appeasement to keep the antis happy.
On a final not the idea that the race should be run end of April as has been mooted by Skelton et al is ridiculous if anything it should be moved backwards a week to try and ensure that we don’t get the conditions we got on Saturday,it’s up to trainers and owners to pick whether they want to go to Cheltenham or Aintree .The Mullins whip ban shows his ride was no better than Nolan. Nolan tapped Celebre once between the last 2 fences. Mullins was over the limit and had his horse collapsed after the line imagine the fallout from that. A bit like Ballabriggs looking exhausted after winning the National after being struck multiple times.
As this is a showcase race watched by hundreds of millions worldwide a more stringent whip rule wouldn’t go out of place for the National.
A couple of points Honeysdad. I agree about the timing of the race although Easter & Cheltenham get in the way but the one thing they could do is run the race a lot earlier on the day before the heat sets in and ground quickens up.
As for the age and number of runs. A couple of trends are already starting to appear. You do need a young horse that has run less than 10 times over fences. As shown with the Gold Cup NH racing is becoming a younger horse sport.
The age agruement don’t wash with me.
First the records show that in the entire history of the National the have been only 3 winners aged 13 or older. Peter Simple at 15 in 1853, Why Not in 1894 and Sergeant Murphy in 1923. This was back before the modifying of the fences.
Recent History (since 1996) the been 34 horses run in the National aged 13 or 14, some had previous outings. Most are no-hopers but the are a few finishers like
Cool Ground in 1995 finished 11th
Riverside Boy in 1996 finished 12th
Suremetal also in 1996 finished 17th and last.
Camelot Knight in 2000 (aged 14) finished 15th
Ambereigh House in 2005 finished 10th, ran again next year and pulled up.
Hello Bud (at 14) finished 7th in 2012
Swing Bill finished 9th in 2013
Tranquill Sea finished in 7th in 2015
Oscar Time finished in 15th in 2015
Vic Canvas finished in 3rd in 2106
Bless The Wings finished in 3rd (2018) and 13th in 2019.
Blaklion in 14th in 2022The are others who didn’t finish, but my opinion the older horses are generally safer.
You've got to accentuate the positive.
Eliminate the negative.
Latch on to the affirmative.
Don't mess with mister in between.Condolences to all of Celebre D’Allen connections.
The changes to the fences made along with the compressing of the handicap mean that this is now no longer a race for the romance of a little stable that has out and out slugger that as the saying goes ‘stay longer than the mother-in-law’ being able to run and having an outside chance of winning the race (assuming they get a rating high enough to qualify in the first place). I rather fear that even if a horse like Mr Vango had gotten in the race he wouldn’t have cut much ice at the business end as he clearly lacks the classes of those that filled the first 8 or 9 places.
It was rather fortuitous that the result gave us an incredible storyline of a trainer creating history by saddling a 1,2 and 3 along with his own amateur (in name only) jockey son winning the race. It was still an exciting race to watch but its just for different reasons now than it was in the past (where it was more of a lottery).
The race has now morphed into a true high class premier long distance staying chase that any decent jumping graded type of 3m+ chaser is much more likely to be entered for and win (especially also given the prize money on offer – even 8th place nets you £15k) – the only time I see that possibly being any different is if the weather gods decide to intervene and make conditions very attritional, which we all know can send form out the window.
I think those real dower throw back stayers will now be confined to contesting the other long distance staying chases that are easier to qualify for like the Eider, Welsh/Scottish/London/Midlands Nationals and possibly the Bet365 Gold Cup.
The only way any of those type of horse now will likely ever qualify for Aintree is if the BHA approve the mooted plans to class a number of those existing staying chases into win and you’re in races.
How about adding another pre qualifying rule that you’ve finished a race over 4 miles. That might add a few more of those races to the calendar which have been slowly disappearing over the years and allow a few more of the ‘plodders’ like Mr Vango to have a go.
The qualification you had to finish in the first 4 in a 3 mile chase was a stupid rule anyway. You could be a 2 mile chaser but finish 3 fences behind in a 4 runner 3 mile race.
GM23 says
I also think if you pulled up on your previous start, you should be automatically disqualified.
Horses like ‘Stay Away Fay’ who pulled up in 3 of his previous 4 starts should also be disqualified.
Royal Pagaille should have been disqualified. Showed absolutely nothing in his previous 3 starts and has a history of striking into himself on good ground.
My take of things is that most trainers don’t give a crap about the animal and are blinded by greed. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever if they come in for flack for running a horse who is pretty much guaranteed to struggle terribly during the race.
You mean like Mr Incredible, a bit of hurrah on here from some quarters about that decision.
You've got to accentuate the positive.
Eliminate the negative.
Latch on to the affirmative.
Don't mess with mister in between.If they go anywhere, then long distance races should get preferential treatment. Like the Aintree factor of old.
You've got to accentuate the positive.
Eliminate the negative.
Latch on to the affirmative.
Don't mess with mister in between.The powers that be have backed themselves into a corner and there’s no way out. No doubt after the next set of changes cheerleaders Chamberlin, Scott & Mottershead will be telling us the race is not what it was, but is what it is and what a great event it still is. Who are they trying to kid?
We’ve had a variety of solutions on here to the once great race, as though it still is special but it no longer is.Perhaps the name of the race is the real issue nowadays. To the anti’s the name Grand National is enough to stir them into keyboard frenzy and much more.
As racing fans we know it’s not the Grand National anymore. Why even kid ourselves. It’s certainly not like the race I watched spellbound as a child.
Why not rename it the Liverpool Handicap Chase? The People’s National? The English National? The Red Rum Staying Chase? That will confuse enough of them for long enough!
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