The home of intelligent horse racing discussion
The home of intelligent horse racing discussion

Grand National 2025 aftermath

Home Forums Horse Racing Grand National 2025 aftermath

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 94 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #1726643
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 11777

    Unfortunately it has been announced that Celebre D’Allen has died. Make no mistake, the opponents of horse racing are going to seize on this news with glee.

    This fatality was not directly caused by the fences. The horse was exhausted but in the heat of the moment his jockey did not think to pull up.

    I think we need to recognise that racing is very fortunate there were not two fatalities. I am sure I was not alone in thinking Broadway Boy was dead as soon as he hit the ground. It is a near miracle he survived.

    Where does this leave the Grand National now? In an attempt to either accommodate modern sensibilities or appease opponents who do not want to be appeased, the BHA and Aintree has:

    Reduced the distance of the race
    Made the fences less severe
    Reduced the number of runners
    Tightened up the qualifying criteria

    But there has still been a fatality and it was very nearly two. Let’s be honest, the “soft” fences will cause a fatal fall one day and very nearly did on Saturday.

    Is the BHA going to draw a line in the sand and defend the modern Grand National? Or are we now going to get more changes in an attempt to make the race even “safer”?

    Does the BHA just have to be honest and say there cannot be a wholly safe Grand National?

    #1726648
    zilzal
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1786

    Jump Racing and Cheltenham also dodged a bullet when State Man managed to survive that last hurdle in the Champion Hurdle. Were there really only two fatalities at the festival as our Memorial Section suggested?

    Jump racing will need to become more “equestrian” if it is to survive in any meaningful way into the future.

    #1726649
    Avatar photoEx RubyLight
    Participant
    • Total Posts 5830

    I don’t think there is much to be changed right now and I couldn’t ask for anything what could be significant.
    The only variable that comes into the equation right now are the connections of a horse.
    1. Is my horse really up to the task?
    2. Am I good enough to ride a horse in the GN?

    We’re not talking about that quote “it’s a small’s boy dream to ride one the in the National”. The people involved in this sport need to be realistic about where it stands right now. If jockeys are asked to pull up after two out, if the horse starts losing ground then that instruction should be followed.
    I complained about Bravemansgame not being pulled up in time and look where he finished as well, btn over 80 lengths after being right there two out.
    Looking back at Cheltenham you had State Man falling on his neck in front of the grandstand, you had Corbett’s Cross taking a fatal fall also in front of most of the public. At Aintree people saw CH fall three out and getting away with that as he landed on a padded part of the obstacle and we had only Celebre D’Allen collapsing on the run in. The outcome might not matter, but the brutal truth about the best equine athletes taking such falls is what is left in people’s minds. And let’s not underestimate the negative power of social media.
    No changes for me to be made, as you can’t make the race any safer. But connections of a number of horses have to understand that you don’t run a horse in such a race just for fun.
    Willie was unlucky to have had Appreciate It brought down and Minella Cocooner jump 30 fences with a slipped saddle. That’s how high he sets the bar and that’s the New National!

    #1726650
    MissIsabella
    Participant
    • Total Posts 47

    The problem with the race are the changes.They have made fences (not just at Aintree easier to jump through) so horses & riders don’t respect them,reducing the size of the fences & the field size has caused a faster non stop pace.There is no hunting round anymore.That leads to more exhaustion & if horses fall worse falls.

    This all happened in the distant past when the fences were compared to hurdles.
    The fences need to be made bigger & the jockeys given strict instructions about how the course is ridden.The bigger fences would cause a slower pace & horses get back onto their hocks to jump.

    As for the Antis,they cannot answer the most salient point.What happens to the horses if racing is banned here?
    NH Racing will not be banned in Ireland nor in France so the best horses will end up there & obviously most of the best horses are already trained in Ireland anyway.Indeed the Irish may build a replica of Aintree if neccessary.

    So horses will still die,in training & on the course.Its a consequence of a tough sport.But the alternative is to slaughter thousands of healthy fit horses & make a breed extinct.What gives anyone that right?

    Its a minority of people who want racing banned,most of them are vegan or vegetarian s who would force their lifestyle on the rest of us.These people must be opposed.

    #1726651
    MissIsabella
    Participant
    • Total Posts 47

    I would also add if the Anti’s get their way Celebre D’Allen would not exist at all.There are far worse things done to animals in this country,many of which go well under the carpet.
    Racehorses are treated better than virtually all other animals,they are given veterinary care that I could not afford for my cat.Attention other horses & equines do not get.
    These Anti animal rights fanatics are such animal lovers that in releasing mink from laboratories they have caused the deaths of many small creatures & destroyed entire ecosystems here.

    #1726652
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 11777

    It is now the top story on the “Daily Mail” website, under the headline “RACED TO DEATH”.

    There are over 1,000 comments and I doubt many of them are friendly to racing.

    #1726654
    apracing
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4009

    Well the logical response to this specific case, would be to limit the maximum age at which horses can enter the National.

    There’s only been one other 13-y-old runner in the last five years, Blaklion, who was beaten almost 150 lengths.

    The last 13-y-old to actually have an impact on the race was Bless The Wings, who finished third in 2018.

    Frankly, I’m surprised this sort of restriction isn’t already in place.

    #1726655
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6592

    “It is now the top story on the “Daily Mail” website”

    It must be bad if the story has displaced the usual crap about immigrants.

    #1726656
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 11777

    MissIsabella, I agree with much of what you have written. But unfortunately we now live in an age where feelings and emotions take precedence over rationality and practicality; and in age where the is no longer a mature understanding of risk.

    Even though it would be sensible to have more upright fences to reduce the speed of the race, I just cannot see anyone in the BHA who would be willing to stand in front of the media and say “We are going to make the fences more difficult to jump”. They would get torn apart by people screaming about it causing more falls.

    The animal rights crowd are extremists and their arguments can be exposed for the disaster they would cause if they ever came to pass (Kevin Blake did a good job taking on one such extremist quite recently). However, I fear their arguments are gaining more traction with the public in our social media age. And the BHA is not sufficiently on the front foot.

    Whatever anyone’s personal opinion of the publication, the fact of the matter is one of the most widely read news websites in the world is now leading on the story under a highly emotional headline. The anti crowd must have thought all their Christmases and birthdays have come at once.

    The story is also being reported prominently in “The Sun” and in the “Daily Mirror”.

    #1726657
    Avatar photoCork All Star
    Participant
    • Total Posts 11777

    “Well the logical response to this specific case, would be to limit the maximum age at which horses can enter the National.

    Frankly, I’m surprised this sort of restriction isn’t already in place.”

    It does seem odd he was allowed to compete. Especially when considering that when Sandy Thomson’s horse was banned, the BHA said the panel had disqualified six horses from running the year before. Why was a 13 year old rank outsider allowed to run? :unsure:

    #1726658
    Prong
    Participant
    • Total Posts 849

    Can definitely see an age limit being introduced going forward. But the nationals days are numbered whatever they do about it.

    #1726659
    Marlingford
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1902

    Is there any evidence that older horses are more likely to be injured or fatalities? Of the few teenage horses to participate in the National in recent years, quite a few have performed well with two being placed (Vics Canvas and Bless The Wings). If the horse meets the entry rating requirement and has good recent form, I can’t see a compelling reason for preventing it from running.

    Fatalities can never be wholly eradicated, so if the entry requirements keep having to be changed each time one occurs the logical result will end up being no race at all. I am desperately sad about Celebre D’Allen, but a line has to be drawn.

    #1726660
    Avatar photoGladiateur
    Participant
    • Total Posts 6592

    Agree unequivocally with that second paragraph, @Marlingford

    #1726661
    pilgarlic
    Participant
    • Total Posts 906

    I suppose those reviewing the safety aspects of the race will conclude the soft fences were a success given the few fallers. That Broadway Boy took such a heavy fall in full prominence as the clear leader will lead casual viewers to believe that Valentines is such a formidable obstacle something ought to be done.Even the flimsy stuff can provide a bad rotational fall when horses become conditioned to how soft they are. Even a good jumper like Minella Cocooner was taking chances (issues with his tack possibly a factor).I would prefer the faux traditional look fences be replaced by Mildmay ones to encourage better jumping.

    The sadness of losing Celebre D’Allen may lead to a change or two. He had performed well over the course previously but at 13 and upped in trip he couldn’t be seriously fancied as I think Philip Hobbs had said beforehand. I note the handicapper had shoved him up 7lbs for his win at Bangor. Bit much for one approaching 13. That enabled him to get in. That the last run was 143 days previous might raise some discussion too.

    All the attention on jockeys over persisting on well beaten horses will no doubt fall on Nolan. From certain camera angles I noted a few others rowing away when hopelessly out of it. Keith Donohue for one.I’m sure they will have to reinforce this instruction now. Not a friendly message to 34 sniggering riders but a ball busting warning to smaller groups with a guarantee of severe reprimands.

    #1726662
    Avatar photoTonge
    Participant
    • Total Posts 3288

    It was a hot day (for early April) and people were madly chucking buckets of water over the finishers as soon as they pulled up. I wonder if such measures are provided at every fence for those who don’t get round. Probably wouldn’t have made any difference but would be interesting to know.

    #1726664
    GM23
    Participant
    • Total Posts 1323

    I think 11yo should be the max age from here on.

    I also think if you pulled up on your previous start, you should be automatically disqualified.

    Horses like ‘Stay Away Fay’ who pulled up in 3 of his previous 4 starts should also be disqualified.

    Royal Pagaille should have been disqualified. Showed absolutely nothing in his previous 3 starts and has a history of striking into himself on good ground.

    My take of things is that most trainers don’t give a crap about the animal and are blinded by greed. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever if they come in for flack for running a horse who is pretty much guaranteed to struggle terribly during the race.

    #1726666
    Avatar photoRefuse To Bend
    Participant
    • Total Posts 4167

    Doesn’t matter what they do something bad is going to happen even if they run it over standard park fences. Could always make it a virtual race that would work :whistle:

    The more I know the less I understand.

Viewing 17 posts - 1 through 17 (of 94 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.